Discussion in 'Never Ending Stories' started by TheJopa, Aug 18, 2008.
Fall from Heaven
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City gives +5 Gold per turn, and +20 commerce limit
Buildings and improvements:
Village (province improvement): +3 gold per turn
Farm (province improvement): +1 gold per turn, increases commerce limit by +15, +1 stability
Mine (province improvement): +1 gold per turn, decreases building costs in province by 10%
Lumbermill (province improvement): +1 gold per turn, decreases building costs in province by 10% (req. province with forests and smelting)
Windmill (province improvement): +10 commerce limit, -5% building costs, +1 gold per turn (req. machinery)
(All province improvements take 1 turn to build and cost 10 gold for first, 20 for second, 30 for third and so on. Multiple versions of the same can be built), and you can build more than one per turn
Forge: Decreases building costs in province by 10%, slightly increases troop quality, costs 60 gold, takes 1 turn to build, req. Smelting
Barracks: -20% recruitment costs for troops if all cities in empire have it, troops have slightly better quality, reduces upgrade costs, 80 gold, 1 turn, req. Warfare
Fishery: +10 commerce limit, +3 gold p/t, 30 gold, 1 turn, req. coastal
Port: Increases foreign trade yield by +1, stacks with all ports in empire, +5 gold p/t, 200 gold, 2 turns, req. Sailing
Market: +3 gold p/t, additional 1 gold p/t per resource owned, increases foreign trade capacity, 50 gold, 1 turn, req. Trade
Library: -20% tech costs if every city in empire has it, 50 gold, 2 turns, req. Writing
Alchemy lab: -40% tech costs if every city in empire has it, 100 gold, 2 turns, req. Alchemy
Money changer: +4 gold p/t, increases foreign trade, 90 gold, 1 turn, req. Currency
Inn: +2 gold p/t, increased foreign trade, important for events, attracts mercenaries and adventurers, 75 gold, 2 turns, req. Caravans
Tavern: +3 gold p/t, less unrests, important for events, attracts mercenaries and adventurers, 75 gold, 2 turns, req. Caravans
Temple: +2 stability, converts population, indirect religious effects, half cost under theocracy, 120 gold, 3 turns, req. Priesthood
Herbalist: +10 commerce limit, less disease events, troops heal faster, 40 gold, 1 turn, req. Herbalism
Courthouse: +2 stability, +6 stability if present in every city, -50% found city cost if present in every city, 120 gold, 2 turns, req. Code of Laws
Gambling house: +3 gold p/t, -1 stability, 80 gold, 2 turns, req. Currency
Tax Office: +1 gold p/t from villages in province, +1 gold p/t, -3 stability, 100 gold, 3 turns, req. Currency
Palisades: Better defense, 50 gold, 1 turn, no tech req.
Walls: Better defense, 100 gold, 2 turns, req. Masonry
Grand Walls: Better defense, 200 gold, 3 turns, req. Mathematics and Walls
Town watch: Extra militia troops when defending, 50 gold, 2 turns, req. Warfare
Dungeon: +1 stability, less war dissent, instability effects you less, 50 gold, 2 turns, req. Masonry
Theater: +4 stability, 150 gold, 2 turns
Sculptors Studio (Luch. only): +2 stability, at least one in empire needed to train basic golems, 50 gold, 1 turn, req. Arts
Carnivals (Bals. only) +2 gold, +2 stability, 60 gold, 1 turn
Most important, buildings affect events. You are less likely to get rebellion where you have herbalists and theaters than in underdeveloped town, even under low stability. Food from farm also helps. Also taverns and inns attract mercenaries and travelers, and even spies, and cities with dungeons quell dissenters better, as well as handle crooks.
Buildings that need to be present in every city have 3 levels: either they are present in every city, so that you get full benefit, or they are present in at least half cities, but not in every one, so you get half of their benefit, or they are present in less than one half of your cities, so you gain no benefit at all.
This is to make an incentive to keep down the number of cities and make a strategic decision – do I need one more city, to get extra commerce, or I'm better of small or more stable, so I'll put up a outpost or fort? This will also, I hope, encourage forts and outposts, and add more diversity, and also make it easier for me to keep track of all provinces
Troops and expansion
Colonizing and expanding
You can expand your empire by one and only one province per turn.
The province you expand to must be adjacent to your territory.
There are two ways to expand. First is to build an outpost. Outpost claims a province for you, but you don't get any income. You do get resources, and you are allowed to build and expand fortifications in province. Cost of outpost is 50 gold and it takes 1 turn to build.
Second way is to build a city. City provides income (+5) and allows you to build infrastructure in city and in province. You are allowed to build two cities for free. Every city after them costs 200 gold, then 400, 600 and so on. It takes 2 turns to build a city, but first two free cities are built just for 1 turn.
Forts can be built in any province you own and can be expanded by one level for 100 gold for lvl.1, 200 for 2 and so on. If you want to, you can specify fort details, like against which province you want to guard better and so on.
You need sailing to colonize overseas! Civilian Transports carry troops overseas, you don't need to build them but take care to secure sealanes. Before compass, your ships must stay in province adjacent to province you own (this isn't so big limitation, as sea provinces are large and border many land provinces)
Cost reduction bonuses stack. So if you have slavery (-30%) and two mines (-10% and -10%) then building cost is reduced by 50%. Also cost can never go below 40%.
Light infantry regiment costs 50 gold
Reckon regiment cost 50
Heavy infantry and Archers cost 60
Light cavalry cost 70
Heavy Cavalry, Siege, Mages and Priests cost 80
Transport ship and galley cost 50
Transport can carry 1 regiment, loading and unloading is a free action, transports move 1 sea province per turn.
Frigate and Ship of the Line cost 100
Any troops you come up with will have their costs assigned. The cost does not depend on tech tier of unit (so axemen and macemen cost the same). Troops don't upgrade automatically, you have to request that by orders.
You are able to upkeep (5 + 2 per city) regiments. These cost you 1 gold per turn per regiment. Each troop after this costs you twice as much to recruit and to upkeep. If you exceed this limit by more than double, each next unit costs you three times as much to recruit and to upkeep.
Troops can be grouped to armies. There is no hard limit on how many regiments can be in but keep in mind you will lose efficiency if they are too big (10 is optimal, 20 probably too big). Troops move 1 province per turn, heavy and light cavalry can move three but only if they are not accompanied by other slower troops.
When training armies, specify where you want them deployed, and how do you want them grouped. Groups of more than one regiment that move and fight as one will be called Armies or Army Groups. You can pick up a name for each group or I'll assign generic name. This is important as I'll use these names to manage armies (So when you say 'move Red Banner Army from X to Y' I know what I need to do.)
Keep in mind that other players do not know where are your troops or what do you have. They also don't know where are your buildings. You are free to give false informations. Bribery, conspiracies and trickstery concerning this are more than welcome. You can request espionage for a gold to find this out, though.
Masonry (Allows Walls, Allows Dungeon)
Hunting (Allows Hunter)
Trade (Allows Market)
Writing (Allows Library)
Mining (Allows Mines, can see all mined resources and use Gold, Gems, Marble)
Warfare (Allows Barracks, Allows Town Watch, Allows Conquest economy)
Fishing (Allows Fishery)
Mysticism (Allows sending disciples)
Arts (+3 stability when researched)
Agriculture (Allows Agriculture economy, can use farmed resources)
Smelting (Allows Forge, Allows Lumbermill) (Req. Mining)
Bronze Working (Allows Bronze resource, Allows Axemen, Allows Swordsmen, Allows Military State labor) (Req. Smelting)
Horseback Riding (Allows Horseman) (Req. Warfare or Trade)
Priesthood (Allows Priests, Allows Temples) (Req. Mysticism)
Code of Laws (Allows Courthouse, Allows Caste System labor) (Req. Writing)
Sailing (Allows Transport, Galleon, Allows Port) (Req. Fishing)
Herbalism (Allows Herbalist, makes assassination attempts more likely to succeed) (Req. Hunting or Agriculture)
Drama (Allows Teathers, +5 stability when researched) (Req. Arts)
Mathematics (Allows Forts, Allows Catapults, Allows Grand Walls, Allows Mercantilism economy) (Req. Writing)
Knowledge of Ether (Allows Adepts) (Req. Mysticism or Writing)
Tracking (Boosts Hunters) (Req. Hunting)
Caravans (Allows Inn, Allows Tavern, Allows Foreign Trade economy) (Req. Trade)
Archery (Allows Archer) (Req. Hunting or Warfare)
Feudalism (Allows Serfdom labor) (Req. Code of Laws)
Iron Working (Allows Iron resource, Allows Macemen, Allows Longswordmen) (Req. Bronze Working)
Light Cavalry (Allows Light Cavalry) (Req. Horseback Riding)
Heavy Cavalry (Allows Heavy Cavalry) (Req. Horseback Riding)
Machinery (Allows Windmills, Allows Trebuchets, Allows Crossbow) (Req. Mathematics)
Compass (Allows ships to travel to seas not adjacent to your provinces, allows Ship of the Line, Frigate) (Req. Sailing)
Alchemy (Allows Alchemy Lab, Mages more potent) (Req. Knowledge of Ether or Herbalism)
Currency (Allows Money Changer, Allows Gambling House, Allows Tax Office) (Req. Mathematics)
Sorcery (Allows Mages) (Req. Knowledge of Ether)
Feral Bond (Allows Rangers) (Req. Tracking)
Religious Law (Religion and priests more potent) (Req. Priesthood)
Armored Cavalry (Allows Knights) (Req. Heavy Cavalry)
Stirrups (Allows Horse Archers) (Req. Light Cavalry)
Commune with Nature (Allows Beastmaster) (Req. Feral Bond)
Strength of Will (Allows Archmages) (Req. Sorcery)
Divine Contact (Allows High Priests) (Req. Religious Law)
Rage (Allows Berserkers) (Req. Iron Working)
Mithril Weapons (Allows Phalanx, Allows Mithril resource) (Req. Iron Working)
Blasting Powder (Allows Cannons, Allows Arquebus) (Req. Machinery)
My idea is that to research next tier you need to research at least half of current tier techs. Also, Tier 1 techs take 1 turn to research, Tier 2 take 2 turns, Tier 3 take 3 turns and Tier 4 take 4 turns. I might review that later. Also, Tier 1 techs cost 100 gold, Tier 2 200, Tier 3 300 and Tier 4 400.
You can trade techs. Keep in mind that after you agree to buy a tech you still need to wait half as many turns as it would take to research it (to a minimum of 1) (it takes time to apply tech in society)
You can begin researching only one tech per turn, but if you have tech being researched or bought you can start researching next one. As with buildings, you always pay costs up front, not per turn. Max discount you can get (by building libraries and such) is 60%, like for buildings.
Light Infantry (Cheap early on, later on quick and mobile, good at attacking cities)
Heavy Infantry (Good against Light Infantry, Light Cavalry)
Light Cavalry (Good against Archers, small unprotected units like priests, routing units)
Horsemen->Light Cavalry->Horse Archer
Heavy Cavalry (Good against almost everything, especially on offensive, slightly vulnerable to Heavy Infantry of Horse Archers )
Archers (Good against Heavy Infantry)
Siege (Against fortified targets and massive stacks)
Mages (Cast Spells, spheres can be learnt at cost)
Priests (Cast Spells)
Recon (Good against heavy troops, mages, priests, good in forests, improve efficiency of all other troops. Note that there is a gap between Hunters and Rangers- That is because Hunters get improved by Tracking at no cost)
The unit list is just a basic overlay. Always have this in mind. Every time you figure out some nice unit, you tell me what it does and I'll try to determine the fair cost. You want Copper or Iron golem? Or Stone golem or Clay golem? You want to field a regiment of Bears or Paladins? All are available. Just point out what do you expect from them (Golems could be stronger at taking cities and wouldn't suffer from bad morale, but slow, bears weak against reckon but have strong charge...)
Main unit scheme will still be used as I'll try to put new units in standard groups. So Golems would likely be like heavy infantry, bears heavy cavalry, paladins light or heavy infantry (depending on what you want from them) etc.
Gold: +5 stability, mines in province give +4 gold instead of their normal benefits
Gems: +4 stability, mines in province give +4 gold instead of their normal benefits
Silk: +3 stability, farms in province give +4 gold instead of their normal benefits
Spices: +3 stability, farms in province give +3 gold instead of their normal benefits
Wheat: +2 stability, +10 commerce limit, farms in province increase comerce limit by additional 5
Livestock: +2 stability, +10 commerce limit, farms in province increase comerce limit by additional 5
Marble: -10% construction costs, mines in province give +2 gold and -10% construction costs reduction instead of their normal benefits
Copper: +5% army efficiency, mines in province give +1 gold and -15% construction costs reduction instead of their normal benefits
Iron: +10% army efficiency (obsoletes copper) mines in province give +1 gold and -15% construction costs reduction instead of their normal benefits
Mythril: +15% army efficiency (obsoletes iron) mines in province give +2 gold and -15% construction costs reduction instead of their normal benefits
Wild and ferocious animals, bears are in battle akin to heavy cavalry, having an immense charge which only the strongest units can whitstand. Unlike heavy cavalry, bears are weak to reckon units. FoL civ with Hunting technology can request trained bears. Cost is 70 gold for FoL civs. Other civs may send their hunters in hope to get them or just wait for hunter to sell his catchings.
Fanaticaly devoted soldiers of Kilmorph, Paramanders are voluntary recruits that come to fight in Kilmorph's name. They are heavy foot infantry, armed with sharp, heavy axes and heavily armored. They have high morale and do not require maintenance, but only Runes civs can recruit them, and only one regiment plus one per every Temple they own. Paramanders will also rally for free in case their lands are under attack. They are similar to Crusader of The Order. Cost is 60 gold.
Clay Golems are Luchuirp creation that fill the role of light infantry in their ranks. They do not require much upkeep, and two regiments can be supported at the cost of one. They are similar to Milita, but slightly slower and also, as all golems, do not tire, become frightened or rout, but they also do not learn and do not have that extra pinch soldiers seem to have when defending their homes. Cost is 65 gold.
Fawns are wondrous beasts of nature, that serve as reckon units, and preform better in forests than most hunters. They are especially good against animals, and for scouting ahead. FoL religion is required to train them, and Tracking technology. Cost is 50 gold.
Crusaders are holy fighters of the Order. Most famed holy fighters are something between light and heavy infantry, and can also rely upon divine powers to aid them, especially in healing. They have superb morale and bonus fighting undead. They are limited in numbers they can be trained in (one per city plus one per temple) but during war may emerge in large number to defend their homeland. They do not require maintenance. Cost is 70 gold.
Freaks are Balseraph creation. Those mutated, often by experiments or torture, beings are useful in combats as they reduce enemy morale, often forcing great masses of peasants to flee in fear, though more experienced veterans will not be scared. Otherwise they act as heavy infantry, though many lack armor to be truly considered heavy infantry. Cost is 70 gold, and when not needed in war they can be used for freak shows in cities, sacrificing unit for +3 stability and +1 income.
Stone Golems are new Luchuirp creation, made possible after latest improvements in enchantment and manipulating ether. They act as heavy infantry, while keeping all benefits of a golem (always same morale, does not tire...). They are 8 foot tall and made of hard stone. They are heavy and hard to transport by the sea, and also move slowly over bad terrain. Cost is 75 gold.
Moroi are employed in the Calabim law enforcement and Military and rank above commoners according to the Caste System. They are usually equipped with fairly basic weapons, often axes and blunt weapons but also the occasional sword. They are specially selected from the best of the Militia and other forces, and they make very well-trained, although small regiments. Cost is 80 gold.
Tribalism: No benefits, but you get stab hits if you grow too big and don't change out
Slavery: -30% cost for buildings and improvements. Expect events that increase gold income from farms, mines, and cities, but also slave revolts, and stab hits if you are good civ.
Military State: Reduces military upkeep. Currently you pay 1 gold p/t for each unit as long as you remain in your supply limit (5+2 units per city), 2 gpt for each over it until you hit twice your limit, then 3 gpt... Military state reduces this by one level - so you pay 0/1/2... Basically your supply is free long as you are in your supply limit.
In addition it reduces your city income by 1. Expect events that provide free units, especially in emergency.
Serfdom: Villages are less effective (-1 gpt) but farms are more effective (+1 gpt). In addition, upon converting to serfdom, one village in each province is converted to farm, if possible, and one more farm in each province is provided for free.
Expect increased stability and noble support if you are running aristocratic government and peasant rebellions, especially if under liberal governments.
Caste System: Depending on what castes you choose to enact, and how do you rank them (from highest and ruling one to the lowest), you gain different bonuses.
Arete: Req. RoK
Mines produce extra +1 gold and +1 stability
Craftmanship: Allows building of production buildings that cost 60 gold and produce 2gpt, and gives +1 gold from markets and ports.
Ill make a change here and remove tech requirements for civics. Techs that used to be a requirement now offer an opportunity to change to that civic with no stab hit.
Stab hit depends on your government type, cultural values, alignment and stability, and can be from -1 to pretty much anything (but rarely over -10) It can also take time to switch, up to one turn with half or no income
Agriculture: +10 commerce limit, +5 commerce limit from farms, farms built at half costs.
Conquest: Stability and gold is gained from conquering provinces and pillaging is more effective. In addition, stability can be lost if you are long without warfare.
Mercantilism: Your trading partners do not get gold from your trade routes, +2 gold from villages
Foreign trade: +1 gold from incoming or outgoing trade route, +1 gold from money changers
Almost everything of worth in entire realm is confiscated and belongs to central power and to throne. Incomes from production rise, but at the expense of middle class of merchants and craftsmen who are pushed out of business, and aristocrats who lose their lands. This is also very unpopular policy for the people, and will not bode well with non-centralist governments.
+1 income from mines, farms, villages
-1 trade route
Stability penalty when switching to this civic.
Commerce limit presents your ability to support growing population and economy. It is primarily food based, but also represents infrastructure, population etc. It can prevent growth of economy if you haven't built a suitable base for it.
In general, cities provide 15 commerce limit points, farms 15, fisheries 10, health buildings and resources provide more... That is your limit. Usage of this limit is determined by formula (excel calculates this for me):
( (Income from cities)+(Trade income / 2)+(Upkeep and maintenance * 2) ) / Your stabiliy * 100
So if you earn 30 gold from cities and 10 from trade and waste 2 to upkeep military, and have 100 stability, you use (30+5+4)=39 commerce points. If your stability fell to 50, you would use 78 points.
If your usage goes over capacity, you face production shortfalls, supply shortages, food price increase, or even mass famine. So be aware. Exceeding limit will risk you bad events, that cost you gold and stability, and may cause civil unrest. You will also lose a gold coin for every point you exceed your commerce limit.
Even staying close to your limit is not a good idea as limit can fluctuate- harvests can never be completely relied upon, and you do not want one bad harvest, storm or locust swarm starving your people - leave a bit of excess food.
Kuriotates: Khazad, Khazad
Grigori: Khazad, Khazad, Kuriotates, Calabim
Khazad: Kurio, Kurio, Amurites, Hippus
Balseraph: Luchuirp, Luchuirp, Luchuirp, Amurites, Khazad
Amurite: Avelorn, Lanun, Luchuirp, Khazad, Sidha
Luchuirp: Balseraphs, Balseraphs, Balseraphs, Amurites
Sidha: Lanun, Calabim, Amurites, Luchuirp
Lanun: Sidha, Calabim, Amurites, Hippus
Calabim: Grigori, Lanun, Amurites, Amurites
Hippus: Amurites, Lanun
Players and basic stats:
Events in turn 1
Latter on, the update:
The Grigori chose to let it go...
Looks interesting. Needs to take more time though. Will express interest.
Excellent, this kind of participation from other forums is just what we're looking for, and FFH2 is a great mod.
(Lurking with interest)
I will be watching. It looks interresting though!
Starting location: 19
Civ Leader Name: Cardith Lorda
Religion: Non State Religion/Pluralism
Government: God King
Cultural Values: Liberty/Social Order
Description: Kuriotates currently have no official state religion. There are many minor cults but no Ashen Veil presence at this moment.
Do we join or did someone else joined in another thread?
I played Fall from Heaven mod that is on the BTS disc. It was fun.
Someone's already them (under Applications), just pick any FFH civ that isn't already chosen.
Where is the list of FFH civs that are not already chosen?
In FfH subforum
I need orders from Amurites and Svarltalfarl (no stress, though, but we can move on to next turn as soon as I get them).
I also need Grigori to revise colonization order.
oh, sorry. i thought there was going to be an update labeled Update 1... sorry.
Sending orders now
I need Svarlt orders and Grigori revision (though Grigori are less critical, because their build and research orders are fine, I can simply allow them two colonizations next turn)
Okay, everything is in! Turn 3 can begin!
Nations are developing well. Some even started to border each other, and there were many diplomatic actions going on, most notably tech trading.
In few turns we will start with foreign trade routes. I have system thought out, but I will present it next turn, and start introducing it in a turn or two. Thematically I don't want to start with massive trade before empires are able to sustain themselves.
So, start sending orders for next turn and have fun!
are we getting an update?
It was a small update
I plan not to make classical large updates until at least turn 5. There simply isn't supposed to be much foreign interaction until then.
Second reason is that I intentionally keep informations about resources, provinces, techs etc. hidden from other players. This is a dangerous world full of treachery, and if you want a detailed info, better ask your spies.
Though I might show world map so far if there is popular request. At least it would avoid colonizing already colonized provinces and save me time and hassle.
I'll vote for that. It'd be nice to have a visual
The world at turn 3. Enjoy!
Orders for turn 3 are welcome.
Separate names with a comma.