Fall from heaven SG - High to Low
- Thread starter Ichabod
- Start date
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Well even though we're talking about a Mahala elimination contest, I don't think I'll be in a position to do it during my set. But I will work towards getting enough warriors together for the option to be open for the next player.
Also I agree with Jusos on the tech path after looking at it. Monuments are a far bigger deal in FFH than in normal civ (especially as a lot of the temples only give % bonus on the culture) so they will be needed.
I also assume the normal 2 warriors per settler rule, given what FFH can throw at you in the way of barbs.
Also I agree with Jusos on the tech path after looking at it. Monuments are a far bigger deal in FFH than in normal civ (especially as a lot of the temples only give % bonus on the culture) so they will be needed.
I also assume the normal 2 warriors per settler rule, given what FFH can throw at you in the way of barbs.
Bill Bisco
Callous Calling
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 590
In my opinion, our goal should be to maximize as much science as possible to upp our Civ Score so that we can switch civs. There should be no longterm plans outside of that, in my opinion. We have an advantage of turns with Stasis. BTW, STASIS NOW. We don't want other civs gaining tech to increase their score.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Stasis will wait until the morning, but I plan on pushing it straight away. I cannot see us going straight on turn 50 unless we get lucky with techs, and the biggest score modifier is population so the techs in the shortest time that give us pop are best.
That being said I am still going AC>Myst (two techs with no pop changing abilities) as they are strongest overall and don't want to be stuck with a useless tech rate just because we were two points off at turn 50.
That being said I am still going AC>Myst (two techs with no pop changing abilities) as they are strongest overall and don't want to be stuck with a useless tech rate just because we were two points off at turn 50.
Ichabod
Gaucho
I think we should try to do the math to find out which option is better: Calendar + settling the incense against AC + Mysticism + building elder council and hiring a scientist.
It's all about the number of turns needed to settle a second city + building a worker.
I abree with Bill Bisco. We should avoid long term planning and try to do things that will raise our score faster. Commerce (= techs) is the best early game score raiser, IMO, so that should be our focus. And we shoulkd avoid beelining expensive techs, even if it would be the best choice in a normal game (that's why hunting first wasn't the best option, IMHO).
It's all about the number of turns needed to settle a second city + building a worker.
I abree with Bill Bisco. We should avoid long term planning and try to do things that will raise our score faster. Commerce (= techs) is the best early game score raiser, IMO, so that should be our focus. And we shoulkd avoid beelining expensive techs, even if it would be the best choice in a normal game (that's why hunting first wasn't the best option, IMHO).
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Well if the best option is to go for techs then I would say AC>Myst as it accelerates other techs. It is not the quickest path but there is also the added bonus of the extra land score from monument border pops. It's usually the path I take first, unless I need some worker techs immediately.
We have to take risks to get to the top spot quickly; meaning that escorting settlers with many warriors is costly. I would rather sent the warrior ahead to keep out the fog and then the settler. The warrior is most likely built first anyways.
Since this is an epic speed game, I don't really know long the Stasis lasts, but if we have switched to another civ before turn 200, I am satisfied.
Since this is an epic speed game, I don't really know long the Stasis lasts, but if we have switched to another civ before turn 200, I am satisfied.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Stasis is 30 turns on Epic according to the manual. I think an early use is best no matter when we switch as it gives us 30 turns to do what we want.
I'm playing the game now so hopefully I've got a decent plan going.
I'm playing the game now so hopefully I've got a decent plan going.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Ok I've played the game, and here is my turn log:
I took no pictures so it'll be a bit dry.
Turn 20:
Pull Stasis.
Change tech to AC
Turn 21:
A lizard man appears on our borders.
Turn 23:
See a griffon south of our borders.
Turn 24:
Lizard man attacks our defender wins at half strength.
Turn 28:
Garduk Warrior>Warrior>Settler (settler 47 turns! and I don't feel safe with only one warrior)
Turn 30:
GG warrior attacked by lion, and wins. I give him Combat 3 for +60% strength.
Turn 34:
It same warrior defeats an attacking scorpion.
Turn 35:
The griffon I mentioned earlier attacks Lucian, but unfortunately he wins (Lucian that is)
Turn 36:
Warrior>Settler.
Turn 40:
Ancient Chants in>Myst (@40 turns).
I took no pictures so it'll be a bit dry.
Turn 20:
Pull Stasis.
Change tech to AC
Turn 21:
A lizard man appears on our borders.
Turn 23:
See a griffon south of our borders.
Turn 24:
Lizard man attacks our defender wins at half strength.
Turn 28:
Garduk Warrior>Warrior>Settler (settler 47 turns! and I don't feel safe with only one warrior)
Turn 30:
GG warrior attacked by lion, and wins. I give him Combat 3 for +60% strength.
Turn 34:
It same warrior defeats an attacking scorpion.
Turn 35:
The griffon I mentioned earlier attacks Lucian, but unfortunately he wins (Lucian that is)
Turn 36:
Warrior>Settler.
Turn 40:
Ancient Chants in>Myst (@40 turns).
Ichabod
Gaucho
Well, the situation looks very, very bad. Not because of the way the turns were played, but mostly from the place we settled our city.
I had the wrong impression that illians get a +1 food bonus on ice AND TUNDRA tiles. But that last part is incorrect and now we are stuck with only two tiles with a better value than 2. The settler will take forever, and growing a pop point won't help at all.
Going hunting first was a big mistake, unfortunately. It was twenty turns of lost research. Now, even finishing mysticism will take forever. And mysticism won't give that much of a boost, just the 2 science from the Elder council. We won't be able to hire a scientist in our capital and we won't get bonus hammers from god king.
We can't expect to go anywhere with our capital. It's going to be a mediocre city, even after hunting. We need a second city fast, but there's no way to make it faster, so we are in a very difficult situation. Even after we get the second city, we don't have any techs to improve the land. If we had gone agri + calendar, we could plantation the incense (6-7 commerce) and build 4 food farms (grassland farm + agrarianism).
Let's hope that stasis can help us make a quick switch. If that ends up not being the case, it's going to be an uphill battle to pass the creative and financial civs.
I had the wrong impression that illians get a +1 food bonus on ice AND TUNDRA tiles. But that last part is incorrect and now we are stuck with only two tiles with a better value than 2. The settler will take forever, and growing a pop point won't help at all.
Going hunting first was a big mistake, unfortunately. It was twenty turns of lost research. Now, even finishing mysticism will take forever. And mysticism won't give that much of a boost, just the 2 science from the Elder council. We won't be able to hire a scientist in our capital and we won't get bonus hammers from god king.
We can't expect to go anywhere with our capital. It's going to be a mediocre city, even after hunting. We need a second city fast, but there's no way to make it faster, so we are in a very difficult situation. Even after we get the second city, we don't have any techs to improve the land. If we had gone agri + calendar, we could plantation the incense (6-7 commerce) and build 4 food farms (grassland farm + agrarianism).
Let's hope that stasis can help us make a quick switch. If that ends up not being the case, it's going to be an uphill battle to pass the creative and financial civs.
You are forgetting that the game speed is epic. Our capital does indeed suck until Hunting, that's why I made it a priority. I recommend we make an attempt to take down Mahala with the super warrior and two others. His capital is better than ours, we just need to make sure that Lucian doesn't give us any trouble.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Well if the super warrior were home and fairly healed we could take out Lucian as is. But unfrotunately not.
To see if we can do things differently, I continued my save for a while and I managed to take down the Doviello in turn 71. I killed frostling and a polar bear with the super warrior and gave him march, which allowed him to heal. He was accompanied by 4 warriors. I also took a risk and left only one warrior to defend against Lucian. Weirdly Lucian just stayed on the tile he currently is and never attacked. BTW, Our capital can produce warriors in six turns at the size of 4. I even got an event that gave me 277 towards Hunting or a Great Prophet. So the situation doesn't look that bad..
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Yeah it's not hopeless, but I think I'll have to drop my previous objection to killing off the Doviello. That was actually based on having a counter to an Illian civ which had the advantage of being controlled by us for a while. I suggest go into full war mode as of now, drop the settler, get the uber warrior home and spam more warriors. And don't waste the GC on a golden age either. We can shuffle him around to different warriors many times every turn can't we?
I agree. We can suffle him, but if the unit, to which it is attached, dies, we lose the GC. So it is very risky. The most important thing is to get march for our super warrior. The Doviello have nothing to counter him at full strength. BTW, Mahala had farmed the corn next to Urslo, so later Urslo can be our settler factory while Garduk provides the escorts.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
I was thinking more as a back-up, e.g. in case our last warrior was against their last one and we wanted good odds on the fight, rather than a coin-flip.
I agree that a warrior rush of Mahala is the best option at the moment.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Also in other news, I'm going home tomorrow for Christmas, and won't be able to play for at least a week, due to not having civ.
