Fall Further - Download and Current Changelog

[rocklikeafool]

Might be nice though if the GCs could get the ability to settle like in the main game.

I just saw this. This reminds me of an idea Firaxis had for reg CivIII back in the old days. Ah, the nostalgia.

Maybe, instead, a Nat'l Wonder could be built in the same way you build the Corporations. I'm thinking something along the lines of the old "West Point" Nat'l Wonder or maybe "The Pentagon" Wonder, both in CivIII.

If I remember correctly...
"West Point" gave +2xp to any unit built in the city. You needed to use up a GC to found it, of course. A cool fantasy style name would be needed and maybe a small addition to the lore and pedia.
"The Pentagon" gave +2xp to all new units built. So, basically, it'd do what the "Form of the Titan" does now. There would have to be an addition/change to make it worth to build and avoid it being, for all practical purposes, a copy of "Form of the Titan". Maybe something like a unique promotion. Or, alternatively, it could give x% bonus. (I find the 2nd option uncreative though.) "The Pentagon" required you had 3 GCs, each commanding troops, and required you use up a 4th GC, to be built. Again, new a new fantasy style name and addition to lore and pedia.
Naturally, "The Pentagon" would harder to get and much more useful.

Those are just 2 ideas stolen from CivIII days. I feel like someone else might be able to come up with a more unique and original idea. If anyone does, please let me know.

 

[Machiosabre]

how about for barbarian civs you could have two great commanders fight each other in an arena for happiness in your whole nation and invite other civs for diplomacy , the survivor could get a sweet promotion thats impossible to get otherwise or something too

 

[Iceciro]

I'd like the ability to put Great Commanders on Horses with access to them.

Then I could have a great commander and some Horse Archers follow Valin Phanuel around as he swallows ENTIRE CIVILIZATIONS WITH HIS AWESOME.

(Have I ever mentioned how much I love that hero? Screw Chalid. Valin solves problems.)

 

[Wodan]

Really? I've had no problem so far with my Horse Archers and their GCs, playing as the Scions. Your GCs, btw, will prolly be a few levels or so behind the units they command. This is ok, as long as your GCs don't get too far behind. (If your GC is like 5 levels behind, I'd start worrying. ) They won't, in my experience, ever be the same level as the units they command.

Edit: (I did a WB test.) An exception: On turn 0, I used WB to place a GC and 3 warriors. The GC and the warriors will level up at the same rate. This is cuz the GC and the warriors all start at level 1.
In most situations, though, your units will get some experience. (Mine tend to get 8-9xp, due to "Form of the Titan", the buildings that give 2-3xp, and my civics.) So, since your GC will be at level 1 (while the commanded units will be higher level [usually 3 or 4]), it will be behind by a few levels.

When I said "keep up" I meant in movement rate. But thanks for the thoughts.

The problem I was having is mounted units with move 4+ and a GC with move 2.

 

[admtanaka]

The installer for Patch B still says that it will install Patch A on your computer.

 

[Valkrionn]

It's B, the only issue is the name wasn't changed.

 

[admtanaka]

Yea. I only mention it because it made me do a double-take while I was installing.

 

[darkarrow56]

it seem to me that shouldnt certain civs go down certain lines faster bannor mining bronze working etc. amurites the magic line faster malakim religion etc plus amurites seem like a researching civ to me with a lot of magic learning....

 

[hbar]

There was talk many moons ago of a certain contest winner that wanted malleable tech costs, so for example knowledge of Alteration, Divination, Necro, etc. would make Sorcery cheaper. Any chance that's on the to-do list (or already implemented and staring us in the face)?

 

[odalrick]

There was talk many moons ago of a certain contest winner that wanted malleable tech costs, so for example knowledge of Alteration, Divination, Necro, etc. would make Sorcery cheaper. Any chance that's on the to-do list (or already implemented and staring us in the face)?

Only since 2005 as far as I know.

Civilization IV give some kind of bonus to researching technologies when you have their prereqs. I can't remember the exact nature of the boost, extra beakers or lowered cost or something else.

 

[hbar]

Ahhh, but this was explicitly defined in XML, with both additive and multiplicative modifiers that could increase or decrease beaker cost. XML exposure makes it very easy to mod and tweak, and easier to make special rules for.

 

[Omegon3]

Sigh... I'm playing my first game of Fall Further, made it to turn 298, then just in going into one of the civs (Scion) the program simply drops to the desktop. I've tried a couple of things --backing up one turn and removing the queue from what I thought was the offending city and deleting an archer who comes up for promotion (the map of the Civ appears for just a moment). The last time that I went in I did notice that it APPEARED as if some event was also coming up.

Note that I'm playing "hotseat" (with myself; my wife thinks that I have multiple personalities!! ). I was going to try only one, but couldn't decide on WHICH civ to take through so I took all the new ones but one (I do fell sorry for the Jotnar only having one square with which to work; my wife thinks that, due to the fact the ARE Giantkin, that they should actually have three like the Kuriotates. ).

So.. I'm attaching a save from the turn just before the error occurs with the hope someone might be able to determine what is going wrong. So far I think that the new civs are pretty cool, but I would like to finish the game to see what all they have to offer.

Thanks!!

 

[Omegon3]

I have done quite a few mods to the FfH game and am really impressed by the job you people have done in taking their mod quite a few steps further. Due to the fact that you have based your game upon FfH, I ASS|U|MEd that the XML would be, in the large part, the same and that it would be a fairly simply matter to drop mine own mods into yours (additional animals, buildings, units, and wonders). HOWEVER....

In a couple of cases your XML is significantly different that Kael's and I'm wondering if there is going to be any EASY way to put my mods into yours. For instance, in the "Civization" XML, FfH lists all units that are either different than the standard or cannot be built; it appears as if Further only needs to specify those that are different or which are custom to a given civ. In the "Units" XML, your XML is much more streamlined that FfH's and appears to have different "tags" for some of the same controls. For example, I have kind of a difficult job spotting "prereqs" until I looked at the schema since the tag names are different. In another my wife likes having Gurid and Margalard early (yes, she likes to CHEAT and have these two critters as her own ). Looking at their XML, I wasn't sure if I could SAFELY modify it to permit this (no "icost" value for them and some other controls I normally use were missing).
Later on, if a given civ is not in the game, I frequently permit my wife to build the missing civs' heros -- and easy job in FfH since I only need to remove the "NONE" reference from the civ that she is playing, but I'm not quite sure HOW this would be done in Further.

My basic question is how best to approach the task of "modmodmoding" your "modmod" given that I have my changes in FfH and wish to transport them into Further?

Another question regards the Scions. I noticed that they have a beastmaster unit in the "Units" file, but for their civ they list the beastmaster unit as "NONE" (i.e. cannot build). Is this because they get the beastmaster in some other method (automatically like other units pop into the game for them?) or is their something "broken" about the beastmaster (and, yes Viriginia, I SHOULD have probably consulted the Civilopedia before asking this...)?

Thanks for any help that can be provided!!!

 

[Omegon3]

I try to fix art errors and missing nifs as they're reported, sometimes xien gets to them first.

I assume your know about and, perhaps, have already fixed, the fact that the "dancing bear" icon (when you are going to place one in a city) is missing (i.e. appears as simply a pink square). I'm not quite sure what might have happened to it since this action is a standard element in FfH.

Thanks.

 

[gunnergoz]

I assume your know about and, perhaps, have already fixed, the fact that the "dancing bear" icon (when you are going to place one in a city) is missing (i.e. appears as simply a pink square). I'm not quite sure what might have happened to it since this action is a standard element in FfH.

Thanks.

The icon shows up in my recent games using FF 051. Have you patched to B?

 

[Tarquelne]

So.. I'm attaching a save from the turn just before the error occurs with the hope someone might be able to determine what is going wrong.

Patch B? (Multiple errors when I try to load it.) (If not check the "For a nearly crash free..." thread. It has a hotfix that prevents some CTDs in the initial release. I'm not sure about the XML, but the python change won't break savegames.)

In a couple of cases your XML is significantly different that Kael's and I'm wondering if there is going to be any EASY way to put my mods into yours.

It often depends on the file.

IIRC with UnitsInfo the most common problem is the weapon tier tag. FF doesn't use it, and it needs to be removed from every unit.

The Modders thread has a lot of info, and the Modules thread also happens to have some conversion information. Heading over there is the only general information I can think to give. It's a good place for specific questions.

Later on, if a given civ is not in the game, I frequently permit my wife to build the missing civs' heros -- and easy job in FfH since I only need to remove the "NONE" reference from the civ that she is playing, but I'm not quite sure HOW this would be done in Further.

I believe you can add an entry for the civ she's playing without breaking a savegame. Not sure, though.

Another question regards the Scions. I noticed that they have a beastmaster unit in the "Units" file, but for their civ they list the beastmaster unit as "NONE" (i.e. cannot build). Is this because they get the beastmaster in some other method

Your guess is correct. The UnitInfos entry is there for the benefit of the civlopedia. The unit itself is actually defined by a Promotion. (It doesn't just pop-up, btw. When you've got the prereq tech a sufficiently experienced Ghostwalker can upgrade to Horned Dread. You can only ever have 1 HD at a time, but after the first manifestation any Ghostwalker can manifest the Horned Dread. Whoever was previously the HD reverts to Ghostwalker.)

 

[Omegon3]

Patch B? (Multiple errors when I try to load it.) (If not check the "For a nearly crash free..." thread. It has a hotfix that prevents some CTDs in the initial release. I'm not sure about the XML, but the python change won't break savegames.)

You're right, this wasn't patch B. I only had downloaded the original 051 and patch B hadn't been posted yet. I did download the patch a few minutes ago and updated the "mods". Unfortunately it appears to have broken my saved game...

 

[WarKirby]

In a couple of cases your XML is significantly different that Kael's and I'm wondering if there is going to be any EASY way to put my mods into yours. For instance, in the "Civization" XML, FfH lists all units that are either different than the standard or cannot be built; it appears as if Further only needs to specify those that are different or which are custom to a given civ.

I'm sure you'll agree our method is much better, and neater

Another question regards the Scions. I noticed that they have a beastmaster unit in the "Units" file, but for their civ they list the beastmaster unit as "NONE" (i.e. cannot build). Is this because they get the beastmaster in some other method (automatically like other units pop into the game for them?) or is their something "broken" about the beastmaster (and, yes Viriginia, I SHOULD have probably consulted the Civilopedia before asking this...)?

The scion beastmaster (Horned Dread) isn't a buildable unit, but a transformation. It can be cast by a ghostwalker of lv6 or higher, once you have the tech,. Looking at the code, it would seem that after it's done once, it can be done repeatedly thereafter without the level requirement.

 

[Omegon3]

Yes, I know that I was referenced to a different thread for "modders", but to save search time I'm electing to ask the question here and hope for an answer (you'll get an idea of what the guys on the FfH thread have put up with for the past several months!!!!).

One thing that I do NOT like about FF over FfH (and I'm sure that it was debated quite exhaustively) is the changes made in what you get from "goodie huts" and lair explorations. Playing eight civilizations at once (hotseat; I couldn't decide which one I wanted to play first), this is the FIRST time I have NEVER gotten at least 2-3 settlers from goodie huts (and I can understand why due to the limitations of Jotnars and the Scion); however, it seems to be a big loss anyway. And the lair explorations... I got gold, some bad guys, and one golden age, but there were no exceptionally good (great leaders, disciples, adventurers, etc.) or bad (REALLY bad dudes to jack up my experience) discovered.

Are these things that are easily modified (to match the results in FfH) within XML files or would I need to actually code them (i.e. generate DLLs)? Hopefully someone can save me some time in searching for these controls in the event they are encapsulated within actual programs...

Thanks.

 

[xienwolf]

There was talk many moons ago of a certain contest winner that wanted malleable tech costs, so for example knowledge of Alteration, Divination, Necro, etc. would make Sorcery cheaper. Any chance that's on the to-do list (or already implemented and staring us in the face)?

GreyFox's TechnoMod, it exists within our code and is available for use. Other techs or resources can modify research requirements/rates

I have done quite a few mods to the FfH game and am really impressed by the job you people have done in taking their mod quite a few steps further. Due to the fact that you have based your game upon FfH, I ASS|U|MEd that the XML would be, in the large part, the same and that it would be a fairly simply matter to drop mine own mods into yours (additional animals, buildings, units, and wonders). HOWEVER....

In a couple of cases your XML is significantly different that Kael's and I'm wondering if there is going to be any EASY way to put my mods into yours. For instance, in the "Civization" XML, FfH lists all units that are either different than the standard or cannot be built; it appears as if Further only needs to specify those that are different or which are custom to a given civ. In the "Units" XML, your XML is much more streamlined that FfH's and appears to have different "tags" for some of the same controls. For example, I have kind of a difficult job spotting "prereqs" until I looked at the schema since the tag names are different. In another my wife likes having Gurid and Margalard early (yes, she likes to CHEAT and have these two critters as her own ). Looking at their XML, I wasn't sure if I could SAFELY modify it to permit this (no "icost" value for them and some other controls I normally use were missing).
Later on, if a given civ is not in the game, I frequently permit my wife to build the missing civs' heros -- and easy job in FfH since I only need to remove the "NONE" reference from the civ that she is playing, but I'm not quite sure HOW this would be done in Further.

My basic question is how best to approach the task of "modmodmoding" your "modmod" given that I have my changes in FfH and wish to transport them into Further?

Another question regards the Scions. I noticed that they have a beastmaster unit in the "Units" file, but for their civ they list the beastmaster unit as "NONE" (i.e. cannot build). Is this because they get the beastmaster in some other method (automatically like other units pop into the game for them?) or is their something "broken" about the beastmaster (and, yes Viriginia, I SHOULD have probably consulted the Civilopedia before asking this...)?

Thanks for any help that can be provided!!!

We trim the XML files. Most people who deal with FfH or Orbis seem to enjoy the Excel based editor, but I personally detest the thing as I don't want to have to scroll all over the place for information on a relatively simple unit. Also I don't like Office 07 very much, and it is required for the number of columns.

So in FF, only the fields which are not default values require entry in the XML. Figuring out where to insert a new field you are adding can be a tad bit annoying, but if you use Notepad++ you just leave the Schema open in a seperate view to reference with and life is simple again. Altering/removing values is PATHETICALLY simple and quick with our style IMO.

Most fields from FfH still exist. There are only a small handful which I have renamed/removed that would cause you issues. But the Schema will show them to be missing, so it should be pretty simple to sort out what is missing, then you can ask us precisely WHY it is missing.

Civilizations in FfH require you to list NONE for a ton of units on each civ. If you add a new Civ you have to remember absolutely every unit which needs listed, which is a pain, and if they have unique units you have to modify ALL OTHER CIVILIZATIONS to list None for it, which is also a pain. Instead, we use <bUnique> tag on BuildingClasses and UnitClasses which does the NONE listing for you, so then you just go to the few Civs you want to be ALLOWED to use the unit and you list the normal unit for them. Thus you can easily make your wife be able to use other Civ heroes by just inserting them into the <Units> section for the Civ she will be playing. Just find the entry for them in the Civ they belong to, copy it into the Civ you are letting the Wife play as.

Yes, I know that I was referenced to a different thread for "modders", but to save search time I'm electing to ask the question here and hope for an answer (you'll get an idea of what the guys on the FfH thread have put up with for the past several months!!!!).

One thing that I do NOT like about FF over FfH (and I'm sure that it was debated quite exhaustively) is the changes made in what you get from "goodie huts" and lair explorations. Playing eight civilizations at once (hotseat; I couldn't decide which one I wanted to play first), this is the FIRST time I have NEVER gotten at least 2-3 settlers from goodie huts (and I can understand why due to the limitations of Jotnars and the Scion); however, it seems to be a big loss anyway. And the lair explorations... I got gold, some bad guys, and one golden age, but there were no exceptionally good (great leaders, disciples, adventurers, etc.) or bad (REALLY bad dudes to jack up my experience) discovered.

Are these things that are easily modified (to match the results in FfH) within XML files or would I need to actually code them (i.e. generate DLLs)? Hopefully someone can save me some time in searching for these controls in the event they are encapsulated within actual programs...

Thanks.

Sheesh, you must play at a REALLY low difficulty level to get multiple settlers from Huts. But it is easily modified to fit your preferences, just look in the Handicaps XML file and it holds a list of Hut rewards.

I suppose questions in here which "belong" in the Modder's thread is fine, just don't try asking them in the Bug thread and we're cool


Also, be careful what you let your wife know about our mod. We allow you a LOT more freedom and power with what is possible through XML only, at least in my opinion we do. It may be that her list of desires grows