Fall Patch changes discussion thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Tinker, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. FilthyRobot

    FilthyRobot Chieftain

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    This! This!!!!

    Modern and info age basically don't exist in FFA multiplayer because of GS bulbing and hubble =//
     
  2. Bl01_Z

    Bl01_Z Chieftain

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    Looks like if they buffed honor the new Germany would become even more op since its ua gives the most incentive of any civ to go honor.
     
  3. fyar

    fyar Prince

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    I think one way to help with this problem is to fix great scientist strength to the time that they're born, like great musicians. Sure, you can save that medieval scientist all the way to the information era. But he's still only going to give you 800 beakers of the 15,000 beakers you need for Satellites.
     
  4. civ54lyfe

    civ54lyfe Prince

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    i vote yes on that
     
  5. Council 13

    Council 13 Chieftain

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    Yes, this would be my question. Does this limit also go for missles?
     
  6. ddd123

    ddd123 Prince

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    i totally disagree

    800 anything is worth much more early than later, be that gold or resarch or other stuff
    so keeping 800 research standing there for ages is a great price and you DESERVE it to be worth 15000

    also im not sure its even worth, surely spending early those 800 you would snowball, getting more buildings/bonuses/tropps and so gaining in the long term much more than 15000
     
  7. Snes

    Snes Warlord

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    Obviously it is worth it because everybody does it. If it was an actual risk/reward investment, then maybe. But if one option is always the better one, then it's a false choice and bad game design that needs adjusting.
     
  8. fyar

    fyar Prince

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    I agree with everything you said, except for one the part that I underlined. Clearly, if we adopt that change, you WOULDN'T save that great scientist to Information Era. You would spend him right away. And I think that's the point. It's silly that some civ which just developed Radar would suddenly pop 6 great scientists and then have Nanotechnology.
     
  9. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    So you would force an artificial time separation despite the player purposely making an investment in scientists (which has a cost) in order to have a burst in research?
     
  10. Birdism

    Birdism Chieftain

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    I agree with all of this 100%. Good stuff.

    In addition to your ideas about Honor, I'd like to give my 2 cents. I think the current finisher should be put as a social policy within the tree as the need for gold is stronger earlier on. The main reason why Honor can't compete with Tradition is the lack of growth, so I propose the following:

    Finisher: Gain 1 :c5citizen: and :c5happy: in your capital for every city annexed or puppeted. Gain 2 :c5citizen: and :c5happy: in your capital for every city razed. Only applies once per city.

    This also gives incentive to raze cities more often and not just gobble up every city you find.
     
  11. Hakan-i Cihan

    Hakan-i Cihan Emperor

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    Well, I don't know if you are aware of the consequences of your proposal. If the first 3 cities would give, without restrictions, the 3+3 luxuries , then I would definitly apply the following warmonger strategy:
    *Build as soon as possible 3 cities, the luxuries would compensate the unhappiness part
    *trade away the copies for 15 gpt and maybe even 1 more luxury for a total of 20 gpt
    *build many composite bowmen and some melee units (funding the unit upkeep with the trade income)
    * attack (possibly together with some other civs for less warmonger penalty) and capture a capital located on a nice spot or which has build early wonders you want to have
    * you eliminate/cripple a direct civ early on and can continue when the kriss swordmen come around for the 2nd wave

    But back to reality, with the candi change you get 2 benefits from the UB. First is you can get 2 faith and +2 faith per religion with a follower in every city with candi. Second you can have the %25 modifier for great people generation in every city. I can imagine you can easily get an average of 2 religions per city for a total of 6 faith producing candi per turn. Compare the candi, producing 6 faith for 120 hammers which also provides great person generation modifier and is buildable in every city, with Stonehenge which just give 5 faith per turn for 185 hammers only in 1 city. Indonesia should definitly be played more religionbased now.

    For your suggestion of changing the UA of Indonesia to something related to trade routes passing through their borders. Well it definitely is a good idea. But with the expansion already containing 3 civs (Venice, Portugal and Morocco) with a trade route related UA and Arabia's UA getting an overhaul trade route related, the chances were slim that they would introduce another civ with similar UA I think.
     
  12. fyar

    fyar Prince

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    Yes.

    At least, I think so, since I don't know what you mean by an "artificial time separation." It's not like great scientists and the investment put into them would be rendered useless with this change. They would STILL be the most important great person type, or at worst second to engineers.

    For what it's worth, I think they should do the same with great writers and their political treatises, although I think that ability is less prone to abuse since there's no victory condition directly tied to culture accumulation. They already do this with great musicians... does anyone think that you should be able to save up great musicians and have their tourism strength scale up in time? If they did that, you could save up 6 musicians, and then the game would be over as soon as someone discovered Internet.
     
  13. civ54lyfe

    civ54lyfe Prince

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    insofar at the leader of a civ being immortal, there's also an artificial time separation of the lifespan of a Great Person staying alive for a few centuries
     
  14. fyar

    fyar Prince

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    Regarding your suggestion for Piety, my idea for Religious Freedom (a name that I MUCH prefer to Religious Tolerance) that I suggested somewhere else was to give you ALL of the pantheons in a city, not just the second most popular pantheon, and even if you don't have a majority religion. Sort of like how the Candi currently counts religions.

    For realism purposes, this is clearly much more aligned with the notion of Religious Freedom: it should respect the freedom of all people of faith, not just the second one. Would you call it religious freedom if the United States welcomed Christians and Jews but not Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus? And why would that secondary religion not be respected just because the primary religion isn't over 50%?

    For gameplay purposes, I think this would be a huge buff to the policy, not just because you'll generally have more pantheons, but even more importantly because you can control which pantheons you want in your city. Do you want desert folklore in a city? Just send a trade route between that city and the civ which has adopted that pantheon. Sure, you might only get 1 convert, but that's all you need. Kind of like your suggestion, you would be able to control which pantheon you want in your cities, but you could vary it up between different cities, and I think this is a more natural way of accomplishing that.
     
  15. bonafide11

    bonafide11 Worker

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    Has there been any speculation or hints about when the patch will be released? I don't see myself playing again until it has now. :(
     
  16. Uncle_Joe

    Uncle_Joe Prince

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    Well the 'beta' is supposed to go until the 7th. So assuming they feel confident with any fixes for issues uncovered so far (and there seem to be a few), I'd expect it shortly after the 7th.
     
  17. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    Another undocumented change:

    The American Minuteman now also has the "Golden Age from Victories" promotion (same as Brazil's Pracinha)
     
  18. isau

    isau Deity

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    Religious Tolerance is trash for two reasons.

    One is that about three quarters of the Pantheons do nothing at all unless you have a specific resource or type of tile. The newest one added, God King, literally does nothing for any city except the capital.

    Two is that the entire concept of Religion in this game is centered on being as intolerant of other religions as possible! That's literally the entire point of the Inquisitor unit. It's also why Great Prophets strip other religions from your cities when they convert them, which is considered a buff above Missionaries. You should never be trying to propogate someone else's religion. You should be doubling down on your own.
     
  19. plokoon9619

    plokoon9619 Warlord

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    So where is the early war rewards? They completely killed early wars to the point where it only hurts you because the trade route system is the only way to pay for yourself now.
     
  20. Liegence

    Liegence Warlord

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    Just finished a German Emperor game with the beta patch. Turns out it was my best game so far on BNW. Hanse seemed beastly, going into Industrial era with +30% base Hammers in each major city, in practice, is pretty insane. Also note that your Hanse cities give extra gold to AI routes which probably makes them priority for other civs. The bonus hammers made snapping up science buildings faster which may overall offset the loss of science trades down the line.

    As for the increase barb conversion, I went 2/7 in total camp conversion rate... 7 does not a sample make, but I wasn't feeling a buff. Plus my first conversion put me over the unit limit so I just deleted the brute anyway.

    Overall I felt Germany is about where they need to be. I think the Hanse synergizes well with Panzers, in that if you're warring you may need to look to CS allies anyway. And who doesn't want to build Panzers faster?

    Very enjoyable game. I dig the new patch.

    Looking forward to a city state/diplo nerf in the next patch though. I ended up winning World Leader well before Space Race was even an option.

    I shall caveat the above by saying my start was nothing spectacular, although my success is probably linked to a better understanding of BNW and not solely due to Germany's advantages.
     

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