Far-Right Ideology in the 21st Century

[Peuri]

if conservatives and the white mid-west refuses to evolve and move past their own tribalism then they have no place in the future among a diverse and tolerant global community. becoming limp wristed in the face of opened and blatant fascists isnt a solution. "le grande replacement" is their biggest fear because thats what needs to happen and thats how they will lose once and for all. diversity is our strength and we should be doing everything in our power to play to that strength by being tolerant and welcoming to undocumented immigrants and refugees. thats how we defeat them without having to resort to outright violence.

So white people have to be reduced to minorities, Europe included? Then the world would be ready? Who is the fascist now? You are the one who comes across as the fascist to me, if I'm perfectly honest.

You mouth about tribalism, but stop for a second and see how you yourself talk about your Other, the evil white conservative, as opposed to your virtuous "us", who has to defeat "them"! And I know, to you they are evil. But that is what it is like to be in a tribe. I know that the moral clarity and feelings of superiority feel very nice. Intoxicating even. I've been in plenty of tribes, quite recently even. Probably in some at the moment that I don't even realize.

What special quality is there in the presence of PoCs, or diversity in general, that removes tribalism? PoCs have done plenty of horrible things in the past, and do horrible things presently, just like the people of whiteness. Why is diversity a strength? In a world that is not the liberal multicultural utopia, diversity has disadvantages too. It creates a weapon for those that would like to see the downfall of the west, like islamists and Russia. After all the Russian troll campaigns around 2016 targeted specifically the African-American population too, and the islamists try to rile up hatred of Islam in the west, in order to gain more recruits from the west. It also creates room for myriads of misunderstandings. "Diversity is strength" is just another deepity like "be yourself". There is nothing in this world that is that unequivocal. Everything has tradeoffs.

I think you are peddling a pipe dream. Just like the one I peddled when I was an outspoken anti-theist. To me it was, that if only religion would go away, then peace would reign. To you, if only the white people would go away, peace would reign. You even talk about the virtuosity of possibly using violence. Those are the logical building blocks of any genocide.

People like you are the people pushing people to the far right. The best thing you can do personally to prevent people from becoming far right is saying very little about what you think about white people and what needs to be done to them.

 

[Naskra]

Fun fact: "diversity is our strength" is a Dan Quayleism.

 

[Traitorfish]

Organised labour. Only labour can stop fascists from organising, from acting, from assuming power. Fascists understand that it's the surest bulwark against their advance, which is why they despise it.

Any solution that doesn't take this as a starting point is just bickering about what flavour of poison we all drink before they can haul us away.

 

[Imaus]

theres many different variations of socialism. from what ive seen trudging through the sewers of breitbart, /pol/, drudge, and other right wing echo-chambers (its important to know the enemy) is that the far-right is selectively socialist, but only when it affects their own in-group. theyre anti-globalism, they don't believe in free-trade, they despise the fed, big business, and the banks. outside of the bible belt many believe in abortion, and they support unions and workers rights.

my point is that the far-right are not capitalists by any stretch of the imagination. the alt-right isnt right-wing boomerism, since the alt-right openly rejects civic nationalism and capitalist economic theory.

None of what you said is Socialism.

They are Capitalists if they believe anyone can own capital with their own wealth and produce goods/services with that capital for their own wealth. That's it. It doesn't matter if they're protectionist about it, anti-globalist about it, anti-free-trade about it. As long as Capital and Private Property can be privately owned and used to churn out personal, private wealth, it's capitalist. Was Protectionist, Anti-Free-Trade Britain not Capitalist? Are Unions and "Worker's Rights" anti-Capitalist? No.

They hate big businesses not because of any Socialist leaning but because Big Businesses censor them out. They love them otherwise and slobber them whenever they see any change of heart regarding those businesses and their percieved social enemies. Such as simply buying Chik-Fil-A because Chik sees fighting LGBT rights as one of their greater missions, and it makes the 'libruls mad!'.

Civic nationalism has nothing to do with Capitalism or Socialism, either.

we need to remove the sycophantic gop from office and make it impossible for them to ever be reelected. we need more non-white immigration. this is how we defeat them and they know it. why do you think dumps cult of personality starts foaming at the mouth every time dump mentions "the wall?"

That would just agitate them further and divide the nation. No nation has suddenly stopped the far-right by opening its doors to immigrants, even Germany with their Turks. Immigration is a much more complicated issue and filtering those who come in is one of the jobs of the state. Setting that filter to 'none' does nothing but strain and collapse your economy. And you don't want the GOP to never get in power again? Start putting Democrats in more states, get people to leave the big cities, get those smaller states to vote Blue. Get the apathetics and independents on your side every election. It'll be costly, expensive work, but it'll pay off. Think Obama's watered down 50 state strategy in 2008 - do that every year, from Montana to Texas to Maine.

frankly im far more concerned about countries like russia, poland, and hungary who are openly embracing fascist and racist anti-immigrant sentiments than i am about libya.



if conservatives and the white mid-west refuses to evolve and move past their own tribalism then they have no place in the future among a diverse and tolerant global community. becoming limp wristed in the face of opened and blatant fascists isnt a solution. "le grande replacement" is their biggest fear because thats what needs to happen and thats how they will lose once and for all. diversity is our strength and we should be doing everything in our power to play to that strength by being tolerant and welcoming to undocumented immigrants and refugees. thats how we defeat them without having to resort to outright violence.

hh

The "Grand Replacement" is going to happen with or without any grand change to immigration policies, and it's better that it occurs naturally, giving the state time to educate, employ, and sequester the rising minority populations into the US over a grand timetable this century, not just open the gates to anyone else, which just strains the state and increases competition within the populace already. Shut the gates and manage them, the US is already going to change, and the US needs to double down on things like the Equal Rights Amendment and cement Women's, POC, LGBT, and other such rights and equity before the law and landscape to get the same result.

Organised labour. Only labour can stop fascists from organising, from acting, from assuming power. Fascists understand that it's the surest bulwark against their advance, which is why they despise it.

Any solution that doesn't take this as a starting point is just bickering about what flavour of poison we all drink before they can haul us away.

Organized Labour, Organized Leftism, and armed for self-defense as well. The Right loves their Militias, so can the Left.

 

[Commodore]

i fear were facing an new existential global threat and this is unlike nazi germany in the 20th century. after some reflection, i believe that we need to stop referring to the right wing as nazis (albeit they do have nazi sympathies, however they are not nazis as nazism was a specifically germanic supremacist movement). the far-right believes in eugenics, they reject equality, they believe race exists as a biological construct so theyre increasingly ethno-nationalistic, and theyre solidly left economically.

how do we fight this? how do we stop it? i see us consistently ceding ground to them while this cancerous ideology continues to spread. whites will be outnumbered in 20-30 years, but we may not have 20-30 years to deal with this. also, making advances economically for the working class (although great and a worthwhile achievement) largely benefits whites and is only playing into their hand while they continue to push their race realism garbage and fascist sentiments. I really dont think that "muh science" and "muh facts" is going to convince them.

what can we do?

So you call Nazism and its modern incarnation an "existential global threat"? Okay, I can get on board with that. But then you go right ahead and equate Nazism and its modern incarnation with white people in general, thus implying that white people are an "existential global threat" that needs to be fought. What an incredibly racist worldview you have there.

 

[Hamid.H]

So white people have to be reduced to minorities, Europe included? Then the world would be ready? Who is the fascist now? You are the one who comes across as the fascist to me, if I'm perfectly honest.

well i mean, theyre going to be minorities whether they like it or not and from what i can see its whites who are voting for all of these far-right fascists. i dont know why youd call me a fascist, since i dont vote for or support far-right extremism, unless stating that white privilege and white supremacy do exist makes one a fascist nowadays? its a segment of the white population thats supporting these racist and xenophobic candidates. do you really expect everyone else to just take it, say nothing, and pretend its not happening?

You mouth about tribalism, but stop for a second and see how you yourself talk about your Other, the evil white conservative, as opposed to your virtuous "us", who has to defeat "them"! And I know, to you they are evil. But that is what it is like to be in a tribe. I know that the moral clarity and feelings of superiority feel very nice. Intoxicating even. I've been in plenty of tribes, quite recently even. Probably in some at the moment that I don't even realize.

um, anyone who advocates for genocide and spouts blatantly violent and divisive language targeting sexual, religious, and ethnic minorities is in fact evil and im not afraid to say it. the gops chosen candidate was an openly racist xenophobe whos also a proud misogynist. hes dehumanized refugees with his violent rhetoric and has stirred up hatred that this country hasnt seen since the civil rights era. so yes, these people do need to be defeated.

im sorry but i cant take much of what you say seriously after confessing your predisposition to behaving like and intoxicated cult member.

Why is diversity a strength? In a world that is not the liberal multicultural utopia, diversity has disadvantages too. It creates a weapon for those that would like to see the downfall of the west, like islamists and Russia.

if white supremacy wasnt something that is inherent to western culture this wouldnt be a concern of yours.

To you, if only the white people would go away, peace would reign. You even talk about the virtuosity of possibly using violence. Those are the logical building blocks of any genocide.

ive never said white people should go away. i definitely dont support genocide against any group and ive never once advocated for violence. in fact, i specifically said we need to defeat alt-right fascists non-violently since everyone is inevitably going to mix together into some sort of coffee brown complexion anyway. the concept of whiteness as a racial construct will be deconstructed, but no one is going to be genocided. thats ridiculous fear mongering.

None of what you said is Socialism.

i agree with mostly everything youve said except this part. im speaking of socialism in a broader context. You can still have socialist policies while private ownership and capital is still legal. I agree that moving toward a world where capital and private property cannot be privately owned and used to churn out personal, private wealth is the desired outcome, however theres many steps on the way there that are still socalism which youre glossing over.

They hate big businesses not because of any Socialist leaning but because Big Businesses censor them out. They love them otherwise and slobber them whenever they see any change of heart regarding those businesses and their percieved social enemies. Such as simply buying Chik-Fil-A because Chik sees fighting LGBT rights as one of their greater missions, and it makes the 'libruls mad!'.

im willing to concede this point.

Civic nationalism has nothing to do with Capitalism or Socialism, either.

agreed. i never said it did.

Organized Labour, Organized Leftism, and armed for self-defense as well. The Right loves their Militias, so can the Left.

if the rubes want to get violent they need to know theyll face a resistance that is just as capable at carrying out violence as they are.

So you call Nazism and its modern incarnation an "existential global threat"? Okay, I can get on board with that. But then you go right ahead and equate Nazism and its modern incarnation with white people in general, thus implying that white people are an "existential global threat" that needs to be fought. What an incredibly racist worldview you have there.

ive never condemned all white people, however as a group they are supporting far-right xenophobic and extremist candidates which is an existential global threat that needs to be mediated severely.



hh

 

[Zardnaar]

theres many different variations of socialism. from what ive seen trudging through the sewers of breitbart, /pol/, drudge, and other right wing echo-chambers (its important to know the enemy) is that the far-right is selectively socialist, but only when it affects their own in-group. theyre anti-globalism, they don't believe in free-trade, they despise the fed, big business, and the banks. outside of the bible belt many believe in abortion, and they support unions and workers rights.

my point is that the far-right are not capitalists by any stretch of the imagination. the alt-right isnt right-wing boomerism, since the alt-right openly rejects civic nationalism and capitalist economic theory.



we need to remove the sycophantic gop from office and make it impossible for them to ever be reelected. we need more non-white immigration. this is how we defeat them and they know it. why do you think dumps cult of personality starts foaming at the mouth every time dump mentions "the wall?"



see above.



frankly im far more concerned about countries like russia, poland, and hungary who are openly embracing fascist and racist anti-immigrant sentiments than i am about libya.



if conservatives and the white mid-west refuses to evolve and move past their own tribalism then they have no place in the future among a diverse and tolerant global community. becoming limp wristed in the face of opened and blatant fascists isnt a solution. "le grande replacement" is their biggest fear because thats what needs to happen and thats how they will lose once and for all. diversity is our strength and we should be doing everything in our power to play to that strength by being tolerant and welcoming to undocumented immigrants and refugees. thats how we defeat them without having to resort to outright violence.

hh

Mass immigration has never really worked at least historically. One culture usually displaces another and/or you get war and repression.

Read a history book. 20th century example Israel. If you think white culture is bad every other culture on the planet is basically worse when it comes to things like human rights/LBQT rights, attitudes towards women etc.

People will support fascism if the alternative is worse. In the 20s and 30s that was communism. They didn't know the extent of Stalins crimes but there was enough white Russians in the West to know they didn't want a bar of it

 

[NovaKart]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the political parties adapted to changing demographics, like the Republican Party reaches out to some groups of Asians and Latinos.

 

[abradley]

There is no american father figure to sanction the united states, bradley nor do we rely on one single sector of the economy to the extent that Venezuela did/does.

with regards to the OP, the best we can do is provide some actual answers/solutions to the things that get this far-right constituency riled up; not the racist parts, but the parts about securing the things that are driving them to extremism; better worker's rights, better safety nets, etc. - even if we have to do it against their will. Alternatively or by combination we can play more hardball and ban faux news since that seems to be the majority contribution to this rise. Facebook is at least pretending to care, though to what extent and how helpful that is is dubious.

Used Venezuela because it's big in the news, not because it and the US have the same problems.

Best.

 

[bernie14]

....but no one is going to be genocided. thats ridiculous fear mongering.

there you go, you answered your own question

 

[Patine]

Why is no one today (or on this thread, even) acknowledging "Islamist Extremism" as also being a form of dangerous far-right-wing ideology? It matches ALL the aspects of the proper definition of such movements in a broad sense.

 

[Zardnaar]

Its bit different than right wingideology that's why. It's a religious one.

 

[Patine]

Its bit different than right wingideology that's why. It's a religious one.

Just in case you don't know, almost all far-right-wing movements in the West harken to some interpretation or another of Christian doctrine. Many far-right ideologues, even today, quote "Christian-based" justifications for their beliefs, ideologies, and agendas. Hard, revisionist views of Christianity (as well as Islam, Judaism, Shinto, and Hinduism) have ALWAYS gone hand-in-hand with far-right-wing ideology and movements. So you're fooling no one there.

 

[Zardnaar]

Just in case you don't know, almost all far-right-wing movements in the West harken to some interpretation or another of Christian doctrine. Many far-right ideologues, even today, quote "Christian-based" justifications for their beliefs, ideologies, and agendas. Hard, revisionist views of Christianity (as well as Islam, Judaism, Shinto, and Hinduism) have ALWAYS gone hand-in-hand with far-right-wing ideology and movements. So you're fooling no one there.

Probably because it right wing in popular culture in the US.

If you read the Koran for example and Sharia law there's a lot of things in it that's left wing as well.

Or at least it doesn't fall into the traditional Western idea of left/right. Just like USSR had a lot if things that don't match left wing liberal ideas despite being an extreme left wing government.

Islamic extremism tends to offend the right and left maybe for different reasons.

 

[Peuri]

well i mean, theyre going to be minorities whether they like it or not and from what i can see its whites who are voting for all of these far-right fascists. i dont know why youd call me a fascist, since i dont vote for or support far-right extremism, unless stating that white privilege and white supremacy do exist makes one a fascist nowadays? its a segment of the white population thats supporting these racist and xenophobic candidates. do you really expect everyone else to just take it, say nothing, and pretend its not happening?

I called you a fascist because you are generalizing and essentializing here about the way white people think, because of their whiteness, and reveling in the prediction that said demographic will be reduced in number. That sounds pretty fascist to me. And you admonished the far right for supporting eugenics. Well, it seems you yourself support eugenics, or at least population transplantation, as long as it diminishes the melanine content of people's skin.

um, anyone who advocates for genocide and spouts blatantly violent and divisive language targeting sexual, religious, and ethnic minorities is in fact evil and im not afraid to say it. [...]

Anyone who advocates for genocide and spouts violent and divisive language against any group is doing wrong. No matter if the target is a majority or a minority.

im sorry but i cant take much of what you say seriously after confessing your predisposition to behaving like and intoxicated cult member.

It's not only my predisposition. It is the human predisposition. Assuming you are human, it is your predisposition too. If you can't even admit to that, I can't take you seriously.

if white supremacy wasnt something that is inherent to western culture this wouldnt be a concern of yours.

Majority ethnicities always have it better in any corner of the globe. Pray tell me, where exactly is this:

tolerant global community.

If not in the west?

ive never said white people should go away. i definitely dont support genocide against any group and ive never once advocated for violence. in fact, i specifically said we need to defeat alt-right fascists non-violently since everyone is inevitably going to mix together into some sort of coffee brown complexion anyway.[...]

Good to hear that you don't support genocide. Me neither. But you literally advocated for violence here:

[...] diversity is our strength and we should be doing everything in our power to play to that strength by being tolerant and welcoming to undocumented immigrants and refugees. thats how we defeat them without having to resort to outright violence.

Even if you try to downplay that in your later post.

the concept of whiteness as a racial construct will be deconstructed, but no one is going to be genocided. thats ridiculous fear mongering.

What does "deconstructing whiteness" even mean? At the very least it sounds like cultural genocide. I assume to you "whiteness" is a cultural object that has deep roots in the history of Europe. How else will you "deconstruct" whiteness, other than destroying "white culture". Of course you can deconstruct whiteness by deconstructing white bodies too. I don't trust your kind of people* enough to not start deconstructing bodies later on.

And now a joke from the Soviet union:
What is the difference between a capitalist fairy tale and a communist fairy tale? The capitalist fairy tale begins with "once upon a time..." and the communist one begins with "some day...".

*Meaning the way you talk about a demographic.

 

[Patine]

Probably because it right wing in popular culture in the US.

If you read the Koran for example and Sharia law there's a lot of things in it that's left wing as well.

Or at least it doesn't fall into the traditional Western idea of left/right. Just like USSR had a lot if things that don't match left wing liberal ideas despite being an extreme left wing government.

Islamic extremism tends to offend the right and left maybe for different reasons.

Of course, Christianity, as in the Ministry of Christ in the Gospels, in no way, shape, or form validates or supports modern Western right-wing thinking, a lot of which is outright anathema. But notice, I used the term "certain interpretations" in the case of Christianity - or Islam, or other religions as "justification" for various forms of far-right-wing thinking. It always tends to be a contrivance, but the religious "validation" is always there. The difference you're trying to build a point around does not exist meaningfully.

 

[Zardnaar]

Of course, Christianity, as in the Ministry of Christ in the Gospels, in no way, shape, or form validates or supports modern Western right-wing thinking, a lot of which is outright anathema. But notice, I used the term "certain interpretations" in the case of Christianity - or Islam, or other religions as "justification" for various forms of far-right-wing thinking. It always tends to be a contrivance, but the religious "validation" is always there. The difference you're trying to build a point around does not exist meaningfully.

My mother was christian, I'm not she didn't baptise me. It's a bit more left wing over here but a few don't approve of gay marriage for example. They're not to fanatic about it though (generally).

 

[Patine]

My mother was christian, I'm not she didn't baptise me. It's a bit more left wing over here but a few don't approve of gay marriage for example. They're not to fanatic about it though (generally).

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Christ's words on criminalizing theological crimes through secular government (more or less).

 

[Zardnaar]

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Christ's words on criminalizing theological crimes through secular government (more or less).

My theory is if someone's sinning it's on them, mind your own business. If the bible is right God will sort it out if it's wrong it doesn't matter.

 

[Patine]

My theory is if someone's sinning it's on them, mind your own business. If the bible is right God will sort it out if it's wrong it doesn't matter.

Exactly. Now, why does that obvious thing completely elude most right-wing political ideologues in the Western World who claim to base their doctrines off "Christian Law?"