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Far-Right Ideology in the 21st Century

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hamid.H, May 18, 2019.

  1. Peuri

    Peuri Game

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    So white people have to be reduced to minorities, Europe included? Then the world would be ready? Who is the fascist now? You are the one who comes across as the fascist to me, if I'm perfectly honest.

    You mouth about tribalism, but stop for a second and see how you yourself talk about your Other, the evil white conservative, as opposed to your virtuous "us", who has to defeat "them"! And I know, to you they are evil. But that is what it is like to be in a tribe. I know that the moral clarity and feelings of superiority feel very nice. Intoxicating even. I've been in plenty of tribes, quite recently even. Probably in some at the moment that I don't even realize.

    What special quality is there in the presence of PoCs, or diversity in general, that removes tribalism? PoCs have done plenty of horrible things in the past, and do horrible things presently, just like the people of whiteness. Why is diversity a strength? In a world that is not the liberal multicultural utopia, diversity has disadvantages too. It creates a weapon for those that would like to see the downfall of the west, like islamists and Russia. After all the Russian troll campaigns around 2016 targeted specifically the African-American population too, and the islamists try to rile up hatred of Islam in the west, in order to gain more recruits from the west. It also creates room for myriads of misunderstandings. "Diversity is strength" is just another deepity like "be yourself". There is nothing in this world that is that unequivocal. Everything has tradeoffs.

    I think you are peddling a pipe dream. Just like the one I peddled when I was an outspoken anti-theist. To me it was, that if only religion would go away, then peace would reign. To you, if only the white people would go away, peace would reign. You even talk about the virtuosity of possibly using violence. Those are the logical building blocks of any genocide.

    People like you are the people pushing people to the far right. The best thing you can do personally to prevent people from becoming far right is saying very little about what you think about white people and what needs to be done to them.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  2. Naskra

    Naskra Chieftain

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    Fun fact: "diversity is our strength" is a Dan Quayleism.
     
  3. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Organised labour. Only labour can stop fascists from organising, from acting, from assuming power. Fascists understand that it's the surest bulwark against their advance, which is why they despise it.

    Any solution that doesn't take this as a starting point is just bickering about what flavour of poison we all drink before they can haul us away.
     
    Imaus likes this.
  4. Imaus

    Imaus Chieftain

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    None of what you said is Socialism.

    They are Capitalists if they believe anyone can own capital with their own wealth and produce goods/services with that capital for their own wealth. That's it. It doesn't matter if they're protectionist about it, anti-globalist about it, anti-free-trade about it. As long as Capital and Private Property can be privately owned and used to churn out personal, private wealth, it's capitalist. Was Protectionist, Anti-Free-Trade Britain not Capitalist? Are Unions and "Worker's Rights" anti-Capitalist? No.

    They hate big businesses not because of any Socialist leaning but because Big Businesses censor them out. They love them otherwise and slobber them whenever they see any change of heart regarding those businesses and their percieved social enemies. Such as simply buying Chik-Fil-A because Chik sees fighting LGBT rights as one of their greater missions, and it makes the 'libruls mad!'.

    Civic nationalism has nothing to do with Capitalism or Socialism, either.

    That would just agitate them further and divide the nation. No nation has suddenly stopped the far-right by opening its doors to immigrants, even Germany with their Turks. Immigration is a much more complicated issue and filtering those who come in is one of the jobs of the state. Setting that filter to 'none' does nothing but strain and collapse your economy. And you don't want the GOP to never get in power again? Start putting Democrats in more states, get people to leave the big cities, get those smaller states to vote Blue. Get the apathetics and independents on your side every election. It'll be costly, expensive work, but it'll pay off. Think Obama's watered down 50 state strategy in 2008 - do that every year, from Montana to Texas to Maine.

    The "Grand Replacement" is going to happen with or without any grand change to immigration policies, and it's better that it occurs naturally, giving the state time to educate, employ, and sequester the rising minority populations into the US over a grand timetable this century, not just open the gates to anyone else, which just strains the state and increases competition within the populace already. Shut the gates and manage them, the US is already going to change, and the US needs to double down on things like the Equal Rights Amendment and cement Women's, POC, LGBT, and other such rights and equity before the law and landscape to get the same result.

    Organized Labour, Organized Leftism, and armed for self-defense as well. The Right loves their Militias, so can the Left.
     
    Hamid.H likes this.
  5. Commodore

    Commodore Technology of Peace

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    So you call Nazism and its modern incarnation an "existential global threat"? Okay, I can get on board with that. But then you go right ahead and equate Nazism and its modern incarnation with white people in general, thus implying that white people are an "existential global threat" that needs to be fought. What an incredibly racist worldview you have there.
     
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  6. Hamid.H

    Hamid.H Chieftain

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    well i mean, theyre going to be minorities whether they like it or not and from what i can see its whites who are voting for all of these far-right fascists. i dont know why youd call me a fascist, since i dont vote for or support far-right extremism, unless stating that white privilege and white supremacy do exist makes one a fascist nowadays? its a segment of the white population thats supporting these racist and xenophobic candidates. do you really expect everyone else to just take it, say nothing, and pretend its not happening?

    um, anyone who advocates for genocide and spouts blatantly violent and divisive language targeting sexual, religious, and ethnic minorities is in fact evil and im not afraid to say it. the gops chosen candidate was an openly racist xenophobe whos also a proud misogynist. hes dehumanized refugees with his violent rhetoric and has stirred up hatred that this country hasnt seen since the civil rights era. so yes, these people do need to be defeated.

    im sorry but i cant take much of what you say seriously after confessing your predisposition to behaving like and intoxicated cult member.

    if white supremacy wasnt something that is inherent to western culture this wouldnt be a concern of yours.

    ive never said white people should go away. i definitely dont support genocide against any group and ive never once advocated for violence. in fact, i specifically said we need to defeat alt-right fascists non-violently since everyone is inevitably going to mix together into some sort of coffee brown complexion anyway. the concept of whiteness as a racial construct will be deconstructed, but no one is going to be genocided. thats ridiculous fear mongering.

    i agree with mostly everything youve said except this part. im speaking of socialism in a broader context. You can still have socialist policies while private ownership and capital is still legal. I agree that moving toward a world where capital and private property cannot be privately owned and used to churn out personal, private wealth is the desired outcome, however theres many steps on the way there that are still socalism which youre glossing over.

    im willing to concede this point.

    agreed. i never said it did.

    if the rubes want to get violent they need to know theyll face a resistance that is just as capable at carrying out violence as they are.

    ive never condemned all white people, however as a group they are supporting far-right xenophobic and extremist candidates which is an existential global threat that needs to be mediated severely.



    hh
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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  7. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Chieftain

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    Mass immigration has never really worked at least historically. One culture usually displaces another and/or you get war and repression.

    Read a history book. 20th century example Israel. If you think white culture is bad every other culture on the planet is basically worse when it comes to things like human rights/LBQT rights, attitudes towards women etc.

    People will support fascism if the alternative is worse. In the 20s and 30s that was communism. They didn't know the extent of Stalins crimes but there was enough white Russians in the West to know they didn't want a bar of it
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  8. NovaKart

    NovaKart شێری گەورە

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    I wouldn’t be surprised if the political parties adapted to changing demographics, like the Republican Party reaches out to some groups of Asians and Latinos.
     
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  9. abradley

    abradley Chieftain

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    Used Venezuela because it's big in the news, not because it and the US have the same problems.

    Best.
     
  10. bernie14

    bernie14 Filter Manipulator

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    there you go, you answered your own question
     
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  11. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    Why is no one today (or on this thread, even) acknowledging "Islamist Extremism" as also being a form of dangerous far-right-wing ideology? It matches ALL the aspects of the proper definition of such movements in a broad sense.
     
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  12. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Chieftain

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    Its bit different than right wingideology that's why. It's a religious one.
     
  13. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    Just in case you don't know, almost all far-right-wing movements in the West harken to some interpretation or another of Christian doctrine. Many far-right ideologues, even today, quote "Christian-based" justifications for their beliefs, ideologies, and agendas. Hard, revisionist views of Christianity (as well as Islam, Judaism, Shinto, and Hinduism) have ALWAYS gone hand-in-hand with far-right-wing ideology and movements. So you're fooling no one there.
     
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  14. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Chieftain

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    Probably because it right wing in popular culture in the US.

    If you read the Koran for example and Sharia law there's a lot of things in it that's left wing as well.

    Or at least it doesn't fall into the traditional Western idea of left/right. Just like USSR had a lot if things that don't match left wing liberal ideas despite being an extreme left wing government.

    Islamic extremism tends to offend the right and left maybe for different reasons.
     
  15. Peuri

    Peuri Game

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    I called you a fascist because you are generalizing and essentializing here about the way white people think, because of their whiteness, and reveling in the prediction that said demographic will be reduced in number. That sounds pretty fascist to me. And you admonished the far right for supporting eugenics. Well, it seems you yourself support eugenics, or at least population transplantation, as long as it diminishes the melanine content of people's skin.

    Anyone who advocates for genocide and spouts violent and divisive language against any group is doing wrong. No matter if the target is a majority or a minority.

    It's not only my predisposition. It is the human predisposition. Assuming you are human, it is your predisposition too. If you can't even admit to that, I can't take you seriously.

    Majority ethnicities always have it better in any corner of the globe. Pray tell me, where exactly is this:

    If not in the west?

    Good to hear that you don't support genocide. Me neither. But you literally advocated for violence here:

    Even if you try to downplay that in your later post.

    What does "deconstructing whiteness" even mean? At the very least it sounds like cultural genocide. I assume to you "whiteness" is a cultural object that has deep roots in the history of Europe. How else will you "deconstruct" whiteness, other than destroying "white culture". Of course you can deconstruct whiteness by deconstructing white bodies too. I don't trust your kind of people* enough to not start deconstructing bodies later on.

    And now a joke from the Soviet union:
    What is the difference between a capitalist fairy tale and a communist fairy tale? The capitalist fairy tale begins with "once upon a time..." and the communist one begins with "some day...".

    *Meaning the way you talk about a demographic.
     
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  16. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    Of course, Christianity, as in the Ministry of Christ in the Gospels, in no way, shape, or form validates or supports modern Western right-wing thinking, a lot of which is outright anathema. But notice, I used the term "certain interpretations" in the case of Christianity - or Islam, or other religions as "justification" for various forms of far-right-wing thinking. It always tends to be a contrivance, but the religious "validation" is always there. The difference you're trying to build a point around does not exist meaningfully.
     
  17. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Chieftain

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    My mother was christian, I'm not she didn't baptise me. It's a bit more left wing over here but a few don't approve of gay marriage for example. They're not to fanatic about it though (generally).
     
  18. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Christ's words on criminalizing theological crimes through secular government (more or less).
     
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  19. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Chieftain

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    My theory is if someone's sinning it's on them, mind your own business. If the bible is right God will sort it out if it's wrong it doesn't matter.
     
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  20. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    Exactly. Now, why does that obvious thing completely elude most right-wing political ideologues in the Western World who claim to base their doctrines off "Christian Law?"
     

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