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Far-Right Ideology in the 21st Century

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hamid.H, May 18, 2019.

  1. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Yes, nobody in Germany was violently opposed to communism before Stalin came to power. "Freikorps", you say? I am not familiar. Perhaps it is a kind of delicious Bavarian larger?
     
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  2. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Chieftain

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    That's because there was a communist uprising in Germany. The old violence begets violence thing.
     
  3. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Right, but, your claim was that Germans supported the far-right as a lesser evil against Stalinism. In 1919, Stalinism wasn't even on the horizon. So why did they support the far-right? The implication is that, for some, fascism will always be the "lesser evil" when compared against a challenge to the status quo, regardless of the political program represented by that challenge. If Leibknecht is scary enough to turn the streets over to ultranationalist thugs, you don't need Stalin- except in retrospect, when people ask you why you thought turning to the fascists was a good idea.
     
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  4. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Chieftain

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    It was more later I was referring to when people voted for Hitler.
     
  5. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    The people who supported the Freikorps and the people who voted for Hitler were mostly the same people.
     
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  6. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Chieftain

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    Big difference in scale. Freikorp was also an early attempt at getting around the Treaty of Versailles. Millions voted for the Nazis vs tens of thousands of Freikorp.

    This is why I think political violence is bad. You might not win and then the blowback comes.
     
  7. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    Political violence is bad. Now, the thing to do before moving forward is to acknowledge that the phenomenon is NOT limited to certain, specific socio-political ideologies, but can trigger, in the right circumstances, from almost socio-political viewpoint that has enough passion and fervor around it, regardless of which country, which culture, which framing dominant religion, and where on the political spectrum such a viewpoint stands in context. If this simple fact can't be fully acknowledged and faced head-on, no progress can be made toward dealing with the problem.
     
  8. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    The Freikorps enjoyed widespread support among the German state apparatus and amid the conservative middle class until they pushed their luck with the Kapp Putsch- and even then retained some level of sympathy, else an organisation like the NSDAP, which was packed with Freikorps veterans, would not have been able to assume power as it did.
     
  9. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Chieftain

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    Sure they had some level of support. But look at early Nazi election results. It took them a few attempts to get their support high enough to assume power.
     
  10. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Yes, but for most of the 1920s Nazis were a small regional party in a crowded field. Their electoral performance is not a barometer for sympathy towards the militant far-right, and there's no reason we should expect it to serve as such. The constituency that supported the Freikorps and would later form the core of support for the NSDAP found it's expression in the respectable German National People's Party and it's crypto-paramilitary Stahlhelm, a "veteran's organisation" full of former Freikorps and future Nazis.
     
  11. cardgame

    cardgame Sensual Kitten

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    The problem with this line of thinking, in the broadest, most general sense, is that the state violence is inherent to the system and isn't counted; it's 'factored in'. it's 'just how things are'. Egg a fascist politician and you'll hear all kinds of horseradish about "that's assault, that's political violence" but give a speech about how the country needs to genocide people and it's "just politics".



    in conclusion, political violence is not inherently bad.
     
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  12. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Chieftain

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    Egging a politian is fairly low down on the political violence scale. Polititans should almost expect eggs, wet t shirts,dildos etc to be thrown at them on occasion.

    Free speech is exactly that. It basically means you won't go to jail for what you say. It doesn't protect you from the consequences of that free speech such as job losses or the GoPs mid term results 2018.

    The left has also failed with a heap of social justice rubbish that doesn't really impact people's day to day lives. See Bernie and Trump's campaigns 2016. Immigration is also another one why let in more competition for jobs when I'm struggling.
    Economic socialism which a lot if people seem to want (broadly speaking social democracy/Keynesian economic s) has been hijacked by the far left kind of like how the GoP has been hijacked by the alt right/tea party.
     
  13. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    Actually, I, myself, don't just make a sharp distinguishment between the two, considering state violence to be acceptable while anti-state violence is not. I've never believed or advocated that. And no one should. I, for one, am known to decry how political leaders and captains of industry across most nations with significant military and/or economic clout of ANY sort, in the modern day get away, Scott free and with no indictment or serious legal view of wrongdoing, of among the most atrocious and monstrous crimes committed in the world today - Nuremberg level, in an disturbingly-high number of cases. I've also pointed out that the CIA, MI6, Mossad, KGB (now FSB/GRU) and other major nations' analog agencies, and all those military spec ops. teams, match the U.S. Department of State's definition of "terrorist groups" as it's stated. This is something that SHOULD not be passively tolerated by the masses.
     
  14. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Chieftain

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    This is kind of how great powers work. Even if you care, its not like you can do much about it and things like armed revolutions often don't work or make things worse (Syria, overthrowing Tsarist Russia etc).
     
  15. cardgame

    cardgame Sensual Kitten

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    Overthrowing the Tsars brought a 25% literate feudal backwater that still practiced serfdom to global superpower status within 30 years ;)
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  16. Old Hippy

    Old Hippy Chieftain

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    And led to the Stasi imprisoning all their own people because the people were so very happy with their re- 'education'
     
  17. cardgame

    cardgame Sensual Kitten

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    oh you're right, the absolute monarch with unchecked power was better :o
     
  18. Peuri

    Peuri Game

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    I guess that depends on what one means by backwater, but Russia already was a superpower under the tsars. A superpower with feet of clay, but a superpower none the less.
     
  19. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish 49ers 2019

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    My understanding is communism was never a mainstream ideology on the world's stage until Stalin came to power. If so, that in and of itself could explain it.
     
  20. cardgame

    cardgame Sensual Kitten

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    It was big, but was it powerful? Throwing in the towel in WW1 says no, losing the revolution says no
     

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