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Farms/Freedom vs Outposts/Rationalism

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Artifex1, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. Artifex1

    Artifex1 Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2006
    Messages:
    284
    Do you like to build many farms and take freedom then run specialists? Is this better for a small empire?

    Or build many outposts and take rationalism for science? Is this better for a large empire?

    Are both viable and which do you think is best or are they pretty close in power?
     
  2. Ceterius

    Ceterius Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2010
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    138
    Rationalism should be used in combination with Freedom.

    Piety works with Order.
     
  3. Artifex1

    Artifex1 Warlord

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    What farm/outpost ratio do you favor?
     
  4. Brichals

    Brichals King

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    Location:
    Berlin, D
    I think it's fairly balanced if you go Piety/Order for many cities or Rationalism/Freedom for highly specialised cities. I seem to end up with the roughly same amount of science/gold/culture/hammers either way. Most important is to time things up well I think. I only play king but can do Emperor if I really plan the timings.

    I'm trying a game now as India going for extreme specialisation. I filled commerce and got Statue of Liberty and some policies in Freedom and Rationalism that make each specialist

    Cost 1 :c5food:
    Use 1/2 :c5happy:
    +1 :c5gold:
    +1 :c5production:
    +2 :c5science:

    I also got Hanging Gardens so with granary, water mill and hospital thats 19 :c5food: and 19 free specialists basically. (especially if you throw in Notre Dame for 10 happy faces) Then there are maritimes. The only tiles I am working are from settled Great People more or less now.

    With Hagia Sophia and National Epic and Garden thats a lot of Great People.

    I'm running maxed out specialists in all my 4 cities and it's going well. I've got about 10 puppets too. It's fun to try this!

    I started with all trading posts but when my Freedom kicked in with the half food I turned all my posts into farms.

    1 Farm with 4 food can sustain 2 specialists. That can be better than a trading post I think. Depends though on other things I"m sure.
     
  5. Marshall Thomas

    Marshall Thomas King

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    Dec 11, 2005
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    700
    It's odd that Piety works well with Order because most communist regimes were anti-religious. I'm trying to think of a way to rationalize this but, so far, I haven't been able to think of anything.
     
  6. Shind

    Shind Chieftain

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    Oct 3, 2010
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    Piety works with a culture victory and rationalism for the extra science.
     
  7. buchengshi

    buchengshi Warlord

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    Feb 6, 2011
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    255
    How about: Their 'religion' is the cult of personality surrounding their leader?

    You can find some instances of that. Even if said 'religion' wasn't voluntary.
     
  8. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    12,316
    Most communist regimes were anti-religious, because they developed out of a theocratic culture. (First religion is used to hold together the empire, then communism)

    Freedom+Tradition is ideal for OCCs.. how do you explain a democratic monarchy
     
  9. zyx

    zyx Prince

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    Oct 28, 2009
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    309
    I prefer building wonders myself. As you cannot buy them, I tend to have tall cities with lots of production.
    Due to the current weird costs of building and upgrading units, maybe trading posts give you an advantage.

    I had the impression that rationalism makes it harder to keep your pop happily.

    I wouldn't say that piety goes with tradition. I often have liberty and piety. And I dislike Traditon - because I never seem to introduce Legalism at the right time, wasting its benefit.

    After finishing Liberty you can do Piety but not Rationalism - Patronage needs medieval era - so I often go piety - having tall cities I need happiness anyway.

    As I most often play tiny/small map size, I prefer Freedom to Order.

    But it very much depends on which difficult level you play - as habppiness is no issue on low levels - and on high levels you have to fight rival civs so you don't emphasize on cultural buildings which would earn you SPs.
     
  10. wcbarney

    wcbarney Know-it-all

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    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    I never go Piety -- not pre-patch and not post-patch. I guess I've tried once or twice, but always prefer Rationalism. It's not true that there isn't happiness in the Rationalism tree: The Humanism policy gives one :c5happy: for each university, observatory & public school. Also, you get 15% more science when the pop is happy. Happiness is where you find it -- Tradition, Liberty, Freedom, Honor, Commerce all have good :c5happy: sources. Especially don't ignore the Honor tree if you've got a medium-to-large empire: The happiness from garrisoned troops and defensive buildings adds up in a hurry.

    In my games (I play nearly exclusively Emperor/Standard/Standard) I beeline Hanging Gardens (increased pop is good!), Notre Dame and Eiffel Tower (lots of happiness from these last two). Other wonders are OK, but I don't bust my butt trying to get any of the others, except perhaps The Oracle, Christo Redentor and the Sydney Opera House for the extra culture & free policies.

    I used to (pre-patch) play exclusively for domination wins -- Total World Conquest (not just conquering the capitals). Now, with the post-patch happiness issues I go for which ever of the other victory types seems the most achieveable at the time. In my two most recent games (cultural & science wins, respectively) I had 96 & 52 :c5happy: at the end -- but this happiness can quickly disappear if you conquer a few large cities.
     
  11. The Judgemental

    The Judgemental Chieftain

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    Location:
    Perth
    I tend to Piety most of the time and only occasionally Rationalism if i need the tech boost. I like order but mostly seem to go freedom because great people seem to really help my late game
     
  12. ShahJahanII

    ShahJahanII Homesick Alien

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    I always take Rationalism.
    But don't build trading posts.
    I always prefer population over gold.
    I am probably wrong, but can't get over this.
     
  13. Dryhad

    Dryhad Prince

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    Great Britain, and many similar nations?
     
  14. NicTeos

    NicTeos Warlord

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    I always take piety over rationalism ;), science isn't a problem for me. And piety + freedom works very fine.
    I always lumber mill, mine and if nothing else is possible a farm until the late game. I also build the city close together. At begin a City can't use all the tiles and later I run specialists and change quite everything to farms. However, it isn't important at the end, because you get so much free food and the specialists are operating very well with freedom and SoL, and if you have even some more for specialists, it becomes awesome.

    Damn, at the lategame I even build cities at the stupidest places, somewhere in the middle of desert or ice - it doesn't matter ....
     
  15. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    However, the monarchy is merely a figurehead. The same way as the church in a piety/order civilization. (which is how the different concets can be reconciled)
     
  16. Dryhad

    Dryhad Prince

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    But communist nations historically did not use the church as a figurehead. They rather vocally opposed religious institutions. England had its civil war, but the system as it is today came about by a much more peaceful and gradual transition. Not that I think Order should not be compatible with Piety, just that it seems as though states like the USSR were running Rationalism, as it were.
     

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