FA's Doctrine: Peace with Honor

[GenMarshall]

At this time we are in the possition that were not the most liked in the Civ world. Here is the list on the stance each civ is acting twards us (Ones marked with an astricks are the ones with embassies.

*Rome: Furious
*France: Annoyed
*Babylon: Annoyed
*Zulus: Annoyed
*Iroquois: Furious
*Aztecs: Annoyed
Russia: Annoyed
China: Annoyed
*America: Annoyed

We should try to give gifts in the form of gold to our closest neighbors, or possibly trade off any of our extra lux to these civs. We should start thinking about giving techs as gifts once we have compleated the United Nations wonder. From this point on, we should not give into demans that involves techs, gold (greater than 50), maps (both TM & WM), and resources (both Lux and StratResource). Also, We should try to sign a MP pacts with these civs to first improve relations and second tie up the hostilities to prevent a civ from declaring war against us w/o them risking a declration of war from a 3rd party civ. The main focus should be our neighbors since our main interest is within our contenent since it would leave us with a 5/9 vote ratios in total, we should try to aim for at least a 7/9 vote ratio. Currently we are excellent with holding the world's population (26%), but we would need more territory (more than 25%)

Here are the goals I have so far,
Hold territory holds greater than 25%
Establish a MP network with our neighbors
Offer gifts to other civs
Palace Prebuild for the UN wonder
Returning Slave workers to there native homelands

Please discuss any Ideas you have so that this plan can be polished .

 

[GenMarshall]

Reserved for individual links to each civ's discussion thread

 

[Nobody]

Yes i agree. Even if we dont want diplomatic victory (i have no idea) we should give gifts to the world just to make freinds. also We could sign right of passages with everyone. This will improve our relations.

If we give a nation a gift (right now) then sign a right of passage plus trading resources when ever profitable. Most of the world will become polite. The iroquios, babylon and rome will never become polite because we attacked them.

People will say right of passages are dangerous. But there not really and we wouldnt give one to anyone who is threatning (babylon and Iroquios). It wont really hindder our military either. Because after 20 turns we can cancel anytime.

Right now our country has no freinds. We need some.

 

[GenMarshall]

The Iroquois, Babylons, and the Romans will be more difficult to sway since, as Nobody said, we attacked them (Though technicly the Iroquois declared war on us and thus are slaped with a rep hit). I beleve that we should offer the RoP treaty to those whom we can trust. The key to a Diplomatic victory is to hold a majorty ratio in votes. So long as we have 7 civs freindly to us, we would be set (6/9 = 1/2 would cause a tie)

 

[Nobody]

the iroquios will never be our freinds (unless they are in a military allaince with us a common enemy) Once you take there citys they hate you forever. Same as rome. But i think we should act freindly towards rome even though they hate us. Did we ever attack babylon sometimes phoney wars dont even make the ai hate you

EDIT: and why did you have to write doctrine. That one word makes me not like things.

 

[Sir Donald III]

We should start thinking about giving techs as gifts once we have compleated the United Nations wonder.

If we wait until we complete the Wonder, it'll be too late! Rather, we should start laying things out now, with the tech gift here and there, perhaps a spare Gem too. Then once we get 10 turns out from building, or perhaps 5, we lay it on thick with those who are at least Cautious.

Also, We should try to sign a MP pacts with these civs to first improve relations and second tie up the hostilities to prevent a civ from declaring war against us w/o them risking a declration of war from a 3rd party civ.

Er... Sorry. I would NOT Advocate MP pacts with Civs who have Butchered other Civs! (Hey, at least we can claim that we let said other civs eek out a living in Tundra...) Which means No to China, No to Russia, and Undecided on America (as they only had light participation).

The main focus should be our neighbors since our main interest is within our contenent since it would leave us with a 5/9 vote ratios in total, we should try to aim for at least a 7/9 vote ratio.

Well, I see about signing with Same Continent neighbors, at least once we decide we don't want to take Leo's.

And, with regards to Rome and Iroquois, an Abstain is almost as good as a Yea vote. Let's take them out of the vote equation since we probably won't get more than that from them. (While at the same time, we do EVERYTHING in our power to get those Abstains.) That means that if we hold Continental Alliance, and our foe is either China or Russia, then we still force a tie. Azteca, or perhaps Amercia, would push us over the top there. Or the other of China vs Russia dependant on the Geopolitical situation of the time.


EDIT: We took a Babylonian Frontier city and they're only Annoyed at us. And this is with No trade deals standing or gifts given. So long as we don't war with them again, we have a chance there.

Perhaps it's the uprooting of a Capital that triggers a Furious flag. Or a certain number of cities...

(After all, they DID sign, and later break, that alliance with the Romans. And we also kept faith with the Iros, though they later broke faith with us. Rome is irreparable, but Iroquois might not be...)

 

[Donovan Zoi]

In my experience, gifting Luxuries should change an Annoyed Civ into a Polite civ. I believe that we are in a well enough financial situation to gift some of these to those who share our continent. Let's get on good terms with our immediate neighbors first.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Great work, CG.
It seems as though the FA department wants to gear up for a Diplomatic Victory. Yet in a recent poll, Histograph was the prevailing option 12-11 over Diplo.

For the record, the other poll results were Culture (7), Space Race (4) and let's just have fun (6). Regardless, a peaceful outcome seems to be the order of the day, so making amends with concerned neighbors should be our first priority.

 

[Provolution]

Honorable Rocade ministers, First Minister, then Deputy then Minister CG and First Deputy
then Minister then Deputy again DZ

I really like how you Ministry is shaping up, and I want you to consider the military preparedness for our two navies, marine corps of draftees, privateers and Imperial Commando, and see how military use of these can further our Diplo or Histo win.
Please integrate use of military force into your planning, as it may be we may save a minor nation, get a resource, deny a resource, stop a wonder and so on.

 

[Ashburnham]

Please integrate use of military force into your planning,

I think we've done quite enough of that this DG.

 

[Provolution]

Well, Tenochtitlan will never reach 20 000 Culture before we win the game, take my word for it. China will never get more than 25 % population of the world, and we will assure that no one will get a diplomatic victory but us.

 

[blackheart]

Well, Tenochtitlan will never reach 20 000 Culture before we win the game, take my word for it. China will never get more than 25 % population of the world, and we will assure that no one will get a diplomatic victory but us.

If we already know the outcome is set in stone, why continue to play?

 

[Provolution]

This is a strategy, and we never really know the outcome, it is just sound strategy to take out Tenochtitlan as they may reach 20 000 culture down the road.

 

[blackheart]

This is a strategy, and we never really know the outcome, it is just sound strategy to take out Tenochtitlan as they may reach 20 000 culture down the road.

So take out the threats before they come one. Good strategy for real life, bad for this game, as it would lead to us taking out anything that remotely resembles a threat, making the DG boring.

 

[Provolution]

That is why we only go in with the Imperial Commandos, so there is some real risk involved. I am not calling for a full scale invasion, just a small raid.

 

[Nobody]

what ever our victory, making freinds with our neighbours will help (other than military)

Lets have peace in our time

 

[Provolution]

Peace in our time on our continent, I agree. FA should bring up all our neighbors relations to max, as well as making America and Russia friends.

 

[Ashburnham]

Perhaps, instead of jumping to military action, we should have someone at the embassy take a look around the city. The cost would be neglegible compared to the cost of invading their nation.

We at the Culture Ministry could look at their current culture and culture per term, and make a threat assessment from that.

 

[Provolution]

Ashburnham, I agree to the proposed action and presented a military option to other alternatives, which is my job. However, I agree that we need preliminary diagnostics on Tenochtitlan, which has a staggering cultural growth. The problem is that we are not going for a cultural win ourselves, but a histographic or diplomatic win. If we can project their culture level to win the game at a point, we should rather attack sooner than later, in order to avoid an expensive world war with more dynamic units. When complex mutual protection agreements come into place, it may even be impossible to attack Tenochtitlan, since we will then forfeit any diplomatic win. Taking Tenochtitlan is no guarantee, but only the beginning for going for the diplo or histo wins.
I owuld say we do not play Civ, but something else if we do not do this operation.

 

[Provolution]

Ok, we know that Tenochtitlan got Population of 10, may grow easily to 12 and beyond, they got the Oracle AND Sun Tzu. If you add temple, collosseum, palace, university, library, you surely get more than 30 culture per turn. Measure that to our top cultural performers Zojoji, Odawara and Fanatikku, and we see only 22-25. Since we are going for a diplo or histo win, the only option to win this game is a raid on tenochtitlan, unless we get a diplo win before that. A histographic win require us to run the entire timeframe to 2100 AD or so. Math, we are in 1255, and they got 3038 Culture already for Tenochtitlan. 30 culture points per turn at this rate
20 000 - 3038 = 16962 Culture remaining. However, the cultural growth accelerates, so that we may a late game culture win by Tenochtitlan, with an alliance system that may make it impossible to take out this city. The time for a raid is best now, when we still can steer the diplomacy somehow.