Fascism is the New Black

[Formaldehyde]

The fascists in Italy didn't either. It wasn't until Germany occupied Italy in 1943 that a "final solution" was attempted. And even then it affected 4,806 Italian Jews who were sent to concentration camps. Eight out of 10 Jews survived the war. Prior to that, Italy and Italian-occupied land were havens for Jewish refugees fleeing the Nazis.

But the rest certainly weren't treated very nicely. Various racial decrees were implemented which meant that many Jews were fired from their jobs and were no longer allowed to attend schools. Any Jews who immigrated prior to 1919 were supposed to be deported unless they were over 65 or married to an Italian citizen. Many emigrated or even converted.

I think it is fair to say that the persecution of and discrimination against Jews, which existed virtually everywhere in Western civilization at the time, is strikingly similar to the attitudes that many still have towards immigrants. The only thing that has really changed over time are the principal victims of xenophobia. And it frequently has a religious component centering on Christianity versus another religion, or even Catholicism versus Protestantism, or even towards specific Christian sects. It is as though many Christians willfully disregard much of the New Testament.

 

[Kozmos]

@Kozmos, I think there is no reason at all to believe that the far right should be susceptible to such an ideological "thinning" process. The problem of our political discourse at present is that under international capitalism, social liberalism has no where to go. Confronted with the problems of modernity, leftists who eschew Revolution have no coherent alternative to propose and are rightly ignored in comparison to the very loud and very articulate crypto-fascists of our time. In a sociocultural climate of malaise, supposed radicals look very foolish when they advocate fearlessly staying the course. The far right, which can point to the present conditions of our society and say, "We should institutionalize this at every level of our culture," while couching it in a defense of our way of life, looks very persuasive in comparison. They don't have to compromise because their beliefs are just as extreme as their methods, and their message is consistent: return to an idealized status quo.

In comparison, as many have pointed out, the left has a very hard time articulating a compelling ideological narrative of the world we live in now and how their beliefs relate to it. This is because as I've implied, we can go no further as liberals without embracing Revolution and the abolition of international capitalism.

The reason for all this is because humans are slow and disconnected. A human can emotionally process maybe 150 people in his hub. Beyond that we more or less disengage. The humanist culture we usually steep people in has some effect, along with laws and taxes we enact so we spread the wealth but it's not enough.

So we can: a) fix the humans and figure out how to rewrite biology to subdue Ego/Self or bypass it effectively though other means (I don't count Asian culture as a success story in that department despite the valiant effort)

b) fix the system, by either networking democracy (with a lot of caveats that will rustle the jimmies of people who demand ultimate equality) or handing over all government to a Machine a lot more unbiased and smarter than all of us

Until that happens we'll be going in circles until the current capitalism hangs itself with the rope it sold us.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

I dunno, merely hating immigrants doesn't count as "fascism". Sure, they're asses, but they still haven't slaughtered any minority in the middle of the night with bats and knives.

It rarely ever starts that way.

 

[Narz]

As has been said, people being right-leaning is better for the economy. Granola hippies sewing their own robes doesn't keep the cash flowing into corporate pockets.

As has also been said the left has become about gay rights, legalized pot & complaining on Facebook about the evils of the world, which is all well & good but "the world isn't fair, lets make it a little fairer" is not a very strong place to come from. Plus, like it or not we're all dependent on Mega-corporations, our little opinions & FB posts & things we think are unfair are unimportant. The masses are like children, the Coprorate/Government bigwigs will let us get a new toy, let little Johnny out of timeout, let us smoke a lil weed so we can feel like we're being listened to.

Not sure what my point is, maybe that the right is stupid & anti-progress but the left is little children whining with their hand out for change without any real power.

I dunno, politics depress me.

 

[Hygro]

As has been said, people being right-leaning is better for the economy. Granola hippies sewing their own robes doesn't keep the cash flowing into corporate pockets.

As has also been said the left has become about gay rights, legalized pot & complaining on Facebook about the evils of the world, which is all well & good but "the world isn't fair, lets make it a little fairer" is not a very strong place to come from. Plus, like it or not we're all dependent on Mega-corporations, our little opinions & FB posts & things we think are unfair are unimportant. The masses are like children, the Coprorate/Government bigwigs will let us get a new toy, let little Johnny out of timeout, let us smoke a lil weed so we can feel like we're being listened to.

Not sure what my point is, maybe that the right is stupid & anti-progress but the left is little children whining with their hand out for change without any real power.

I dunno, politics depress me.

I think you make a good observation: having a right-of-center mindset helps individuals be more economically productive. They believe in the system and are motivated to work with the circumstances of the situation rather than change the situation, which takes energy away from productivity.

I think the mistake you kind of have to make to have that mindset and be more productive is thinking that the management of the economy should be more right of center, when more center-left economies tend to do better.

 

[Narz]

Well I have a different view of "productive" altogether.

As for right & left, neither is sustainable in the long-run. The left may give lets say 20% more weight to issues involving humans rights/environmental destruction but whether the car's going 80 or 100mph doesn't matter too much if we can't avert the cliff coming up (or build some sort of bridge to forever).

Its hard to really build a very good analogy for something as large & complicated as the future of the entire world.

 

[Tee Kay]

Its hard to really build a very good analogy for something as large & complicated as the future of the entire world.

Well how about whether GDP grows or shrinks by a percent doesn't matter too much in the long run if we all starve because the environment's screwed.

 

[Lord of Elves]

I dunno, merely hating immigrants doesn't count as "fascism". Sure, they're asses, but they still haven't slaughtered any minority in the middle of the night with bats and knives.

Identifying, labeling and rallying against the enemy group is one of the stages of genocide according to the United Nations (the most timidly bourgeois authority possible) and one of the most basic forms of tribalism. These kinds of ritualistic behaviors, performed on a mass scale before a sympathetic audience on television, the Internet and AM radio are the sort of thing Goebbels must have masturbated to and clearly exist in our society.

As has been said, people being right-leaning is better for the economy. Granola hippies sewing their own robes doesn't keep the cash flowing into corporate pockets.

As has also been said the left has become about gay rights, legalized pot & complaining on Facebook about the evils of the world, which is all well & good but "the world isn't fair, lets make it a little fairer" is not a very strong place to come from. Plus, like it or not we're all dependent on Mega-corporations, our little opinions & FB posts & things we think are unfair are unimportant. The masses are like children, the Coprorate/Government bigwigs will let us get a new toy, let little Johnny out of timeout, let us smoke a lil weed so we can feel like we're being listened to.

Not sure what my point is, maybe that the right is stupid & anti-progress but the left is little children whining with their hand out for change without any real power.

I dunno, politics depress me.

That this is the kind of view otherwise informed people have of the left is the greatest failure of American liberalism and evinces how completely the post-Cold War left has failed to make any impact on our political culture.

What we have procured instead is a culture of coffee table leftism, where dialectic fads come and go with the weather, and bourgeois identity politics has happily replaced the solidarity of the workers and the unity of the American people. Ultimately, whatever victories are won by the bourgeois left are a mirage. They simply do not exist. True human equality is traded for an equality of the checkbook, where productivity for the market is exchanged for human rights. What else can be said of a popular culture that has commodified and accessorized homosexuality, simultaneously glorifying and trivializing one of the most repressed groups of people in human history? Or a society that trades free access to abortion basic human rights for women for shows about basic rights for women?

 

[Tee Kay]

>complains about "coffee table leftism"
>brings up society's treatment of homosexuals as a major point

 

[Lord of Elves]

>complains about "coffee table leftism"
>brings up society's treatment of homosexuals as a major point

Really? Are you "too cool" for the concerns of social leftism?

Even now I'm under assault for being passe. The greatest offense you can commit as a liberal is being out of fashion.

 

[Tee Kay]

"Assault"? Oh please. I'm just chuckling at you complaining about trendy leftist fads while indulging in trendy leftist fads.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Ironically, that is one of the few victories the supposed leftists can be proud to help accomplish in recent history. While we haven't yet gotten Congress to give homosexuals the same protected rights as everybody else quite yet, at least the bible thumpers suffered a major defeat in pretending that gay marriage somehow trampled on their own right to discriminate against homosexuals.

 

[Lord of Elves]

"Assault"? Oh please. I'm just chuckling at you complaining about trendy leftist fads while indulging in trendy leftist fads.

This contributes nothing to the discussion. Basically any time anyone on an Internet forum dismisses someone's argument as "complaining," we've run up against a wall in the style of Godwin's Law, where further debate is basically pointless. Everyone's "complaining" unless we all go out right now and vote on a referendum, or violently overthrow the government tomorrow, or are ourselves a member of our national legislature. None of us have the wherewithal or power to go out and change the world on our own.

That doesn't mean we aren't entitled to criticize the incredibly poor job that is being done by other people. There are ways we can improve, instead of sitting around patting ourselves on the back for being above naive, childish ideas like mass action and democracy.

Ironically, that is one of the few victories the supposed leftists can be proud to help accomplish in recent history. While we haven't yet gotten Congress to give homosexuals the same protected rights as everybody else quite yet, at least the bible thumpers suffered a major defeat in pretending that gay marriage somehow trampled on their own right to discriminate against homosexuals.

So what have we done about raising the minimum wage, taking corporate money out of electoral campaigns, ending gerrymandering, ending "voter ID laws," giving unions more power against management, or stopping the wholesale massacre of unarmed civilians by random madmen? Or anything else that actually moves the foundation of our democracy to a better place?

 

[Formaldehyde]

So what have we done about raising the minimum wage, taking corporate money out of electoral campaigns, ending gerrymandering, ending "voter ID laws," giving unions more power against management, or stopping the wholesale massacre of unarmed civilians by random madmen? Or anything else that actually moves the foundation of our democracy to a better place?

You might as well demand the Bill of Rights back minus the recent reactionary reinterpretation of the Second Amendment.

There is only so much 20% of the population with no real political power can accomplish in a far-right authoritarian democracy.

 

[Lord of Elves]

You might as well demand the Bill of Rights back minus the recent reactionary reinterpretation of the Second Amendment.

There is only so much 20% of the population with no real political power can accomplish in a far-right authoritarian democracy.

That's what I'm saying, man. But we can't accomplish any kind of political revolution, bloody or bloodless, without an attendant cultural revolution. If we are going to reassert democracy we need to instill in people the ethos of a democratic society which no longer exists around us. In the environment of late capitalism, mass media is wielded by the ruling class to obfuscate truth, sensationalize debate, trivialize mass action and divide and conquer society. The least we can do is use the tools provided to us by information technology to take seriously the question of our future freedom.

 

[Formaldehyde]

That is why I think our only real hope is to vastly improve the educational system. To make at least a bachelors degree completely free of charge for any citizen who wants one and can make the grades. Until we solve the problem of the voters not even being able to think critically we will continue to produce far too many racists and bigots to make any real progress.

 

[Lord of Elves]

That is why I think our only real hope is to vastly improve the educational system. To make at least a bachelors degree completely free of charge for any citizen who wants one and can make the grades. Until we solve the problem of the voters not even being able to think critically we will continue to produce far too many racists and bigots to make any real progress.

Education reform is something we need to achieve in the United States for sure, but no amount of public education provided by a capitalist state is going to equip people intellectually and ideologically to build an equal society.

Admittedly, the lauded Founding Fathers do a good job of instilling egalitarian "first principles."

What we need instead is mass action with centralized leadership, or as Lenin put it, "the electrification of the whole country." We have - admittedly very rough and yellow-bellied - models for such mass action in the Occupy movement and in the public reaction to police brutality in Ferguson, etc. But we need to go beyond concerned individuals voicing their discontent over social media and develop a media empire with cohesion and visibility to match that of the powers arrayed against us. We must win the culture war before we can win the class war.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Now you are talking about socialism so that 20% became 2-5%.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Now you are talking about socialism. So that 20% became 2-5%.

Only now?

Socialism is the American dream. It proposes the creation of a society where the constraints of market coercion are lifted and people are free to pursue happiness. Once it is articulated in a way that people understand and connect with, socialism can succeed.

 

[mrt144]

That is why I think our only real hope is to vastly improve the educational system. To make at least a bachelors degree completely free of charge for any citizen who wants one and can make the grades. Until we solve the problem of the voters not even being able to think critically we will continue to produce far too many racists and bigots to make any real progress.

Hahaha there is no amount of education can spur critical thinking or self reflection on why we believe what do. Also engineers are notoriously conservative almost in spite of their education.