Fascists Riot in Virginia

[Ryika]

this has to be the most naive thing i've seen someone post on this forum. do you even know what nazis espouse?

I'm from Germany, half of my history lessons in school were about the evils of the ideology of the National Socialists, so... yeah, I think so?

 

[miaasma]

I'm from Germany, half of my history lessons in school were about the evils of the ideology of the National Socialists, so... yeah, I think so?

oh i see

can you explain why somebody whose education was specifically aimed towards denouncing nazi rhetoric is so bad at recognizing violent rhetoric when it's shown to them?

because you literally just typed "extremists on the left have a worse track record than extremists on the right" in a thread about a fascist riot

 

[timtofly]

This seems unlikely somehow.

Interesting statement. Which countries ?

In my country, the christian centre parties lost during the 60-70ies their compassionate youth to the progressive parties (all libertarian & leftish) and the remainder was the conservative right wing that lost further voters to the neo-liberal rightwing.

It does not happen overnight, nor perhaps a decade. Even the Clintons whom Hillary was supposed to be the poster for the liberal left were part of the social Christian group. The only steam they had going for them, was open opposition to the fascist right.

However since Christians took over the governmental control around 600 AD, the religion itself more than likely has influenced all types of thinking, including the creation of the Soviet Union despite it's atheistic push.

A few charismatic leaders whom get overly well known throughout history does not define Christianity nor really change it's core influence. I am not even sure one can prove that Christianity or lack of practice can fully define a government type. Sure Stalin tried to brainwash or force his country to remove what it is to be Christian, but I doubt that end has been realized.

In fact, I would argue that being Christian is the ability for one to govern themselves, without being told what to do. When Christianity is pushed to the side and people are told they need a big brother to think for them is when we get totalitarian fascist rule that is oppressive and restrictive.

 

[Ryika]

oh i see

can you explain why somebody whose education was specifically aimed towards denouncing nazi rhetoric is so bad at recognizing violent rhetoric when it's shown to them?

because you literally just typed "extremists on the left have a worse track record than extremists on the right" in a thread about a fascist riot

What are you even talking about? Throughout this whole thread I have said multiple times that Charlottesville was a clear case of a gathering of Nazis, and Fascists, with some people mixed in who don't fit those descriptions - but I'm perfectly fine to ignore them in this case, given the you have to be an idiot to take part in that specific rally and not realize that you're in the wrong place.

This rally however is not at all comparable to the other rallies that were led to violent clashes in the recent past, and I say that as a person who has watched hours of raw footage where people interviewed random people who went there. Those rallies were dominated by people who wanted to protest for free speech, and were against political correctness and against identity politics. Some racists as well, sure, but the overwhelming majority were there to protest against what they think are bad ideologies. If you really think these people are Nazis just because they are politically right, and disagree with these things that are ideologically left, then... well, sorry. Then you're delusional.

In at least three occasions, the black bloc showed up and started rushing into the demonstrations which had until that point been perfectly peaceful. So yeah, since the clashes started, the Left has the worse track record.

 

[Cutlass]

The problem with the "anti"-racists or "anti"-facists is that they are completely racist. And that is the reason no one listens to them. I have never seen them hold an antiracism demonstration against Isis. In fact, they even try to downplay the ethnic cleanings, slave markets & terror attacks. What I do have seen them display is conspiracy theories, diversion or even overt happiness about 9/11 or similar attacks.

Where are the people who hold balanced views? Where are the guys who say: Sure, Isis is racist, we should hold an antiracism demonstration against them? You simply won't find them. Their antiracism or women's rights demonstrations are selectively and solely directed against western countries. They never criticize anyone else. It is directed against Israel, not Hamas, against America, not Isis, against Europe, not Erdogan.

The problem is that they are not honest. They don't care about racism, or women's rights or facism. They never did. In fact, they are perfectly fine with it & even support it - as long as it is directed against western, "capitalist" countries.

Back in the real world, those people are explicitly not racist. They are just called racist by people who are actually racists because such people want to discredit them, rather than hear what they are saying.

 

[miaasma]

This rally however is not at all comparable to the other rallies that were led to violent clashes in the recent past, and I say that as a person who has watched hours of raw footage where people interviewed random people who went there. Those rallies were dominated by people who wanted to protest for free speech, and were against political correctness and against identity politics. Some racists as well, sure, but the overwhelming majority were there to protest against what they think are bad ideologies. If you really think these people are Nazis just because they are politically right, and disagree with these things that are ideologically left, then... well, sorry. Then you're delusional.

i had to stop and admire that you typed this paragraph and then ended it by calling somebody else delusional

 

[cardgame]

What are you even talking about? Throughout this whole thread I have said multiple times that Charlottesville was a clear case of a gathering of Nazis, and Fascists, with some people mixed in who don't fit those descriptions - but I'm perfectly fine to ignore them in this case, given the you have to be an idiot to take part in that specific rally and not realize that you're in the wrong place.

This rally however is not at all comparable to the other rallies that were led to violent clashes in the recent past, and I say that as a person who has watched hours of raw footage where people interviewed random people who went there. Those rallies were dominated by people who wanted to protest for free speech, and were against political correctness and against identity politics. Some racists as well, sure, but the overwhelming majority were there to protest against what they think are bad ideologies. If you really think these people are Nazis just because they are politically right, and disagree with these things that are ideologically left, then... well, sorry. Then you're delusional.

In at least three occasions, the black bloc showed up and started rushing into the demonstrations which had until that point been perfectly peaceful. So yeah, since the clashes started, the Left has the worse track record.

Are pre-emptive strikes really wrong? The last time we had fascists organizing in the streets they weren't stopped, and they started organizing in the parliament, and we all know what happened then. You especially.

 

[caketastydelish]

Back in the real world, those people are explicitly not racist. They are just called racist by people who are actually racists because such people want to discredit them, rather than hear what they are saying.

"Back in the real world". What is this, the Matrix? What a loaded term.

 

[caketastydelish]

unrelated note: Is there a significant amount of women at these Nazi rallies? Or is it just a lil' bit gay...

 

[Ryika]

Are pre-emptive strikes really wrong? The last time we had fascists organizing in the streets they weren't stopped, and they started organizing in the parliament, and we all know what happened then. You especially.

Even if we ignore the morality of this, by going against the fascists and the people who are not fascists but are labeled as such, you only create more fascists. A large part of the rise of this movement is the fact that these people feel marginalized, what do you think happens when you validate that feeling with direct action against them? You create more of them - and THAT is when they can organize in the parliament.

What America should really do in my opinion, is to get at the core of what pushes support towards these people, which is as far as I can tell mostly the black-and-white style of politics, in which two factions listen to only the side of the story that fits the narrative that they've constructed for themselves and go like "LALALA didn't hear that!" whenever someone contradicts their world view. miaasma is a perfect example for that.

 

[Senethro]

Tell it to the 1930s.

 

[miaasma]

but what if, like, the firefighters were the real fire the whole time? Make's You Think

 

[Bugfatty300]

Falsely calling someone a fascist will cause them to become one? I don't think so. People who come out as the thing people accused them of being do so because they realize there is no point in hiding anymore.

 

[Ryika]

Tell it to the 1930s.

Hitler came to power because of the Economical Crash, that smashed a population that was just in the process of recovering of the staggering defeat of WW1 (and the resulting payments in the Treaty of Versailles) down to the ground. The fascists used the desperation of a population in poverty, as well as the weakness of the Weimar Republic, to get where they got to.

So... I don't see how your nonsensical 1-liner makes any sense.

 

[Ryika]

Falsely calling someone a fascist will cause them to become one?

People who feel marginalized tend to radicalize, yeah.

 

[Senethro]

Hitler wasn't inevitable and not opposing fascism is not a solution.

 

[Ryika]

Hitler wasn't inevitable and not opposing fascism is not a solution.

I'm all for opposing fascism.

People who think attacking people who are at a rally however, whether they're fascists or not, are not "opposing fascism". They are idiots who just make things worse.

 

[Senethro]

So how should white male radicalization be prevented?

 

[Ryika]

I already told you:

What America should really do in my opinion, is to get at the core of what pushes support towards these people, which is as far as I can tell mostly the black-and-white style of politics, in which two factions listen to only the side of the story that fits the narrative that they've constructed for themselves and go like "LALALA didn't hear that!" whenever someone contradicts their world view.

 

[Bugfatty300]

People who feel marginalized tend to radicalize, yeah.

No sane person is being radicalized by these first world social media hissy fits. It's clearly a movement based on preconceived convictions that many were too embarrassed to espouse openly until it suddenly became a popular internet meme.