Fastest way to Sanitation

[sylvanllewelyn]

I'll make the question short: what's the fastest way to reach sanitation, so I can clear jungles? Granted, jungle starts usually give you gold, gems or other goodies that start you off well along the tech path, but clearing the creeping jungles so you stop becoming unhealthy is an absolute pain in the neck. Plus, jungle starts have low production, and using population for production is no longer as readily available here as vanilla Civ.

Problem is, only the great sage pops sanitation, and only has that tech in a very low priority. Sometimes you are caught in a sea of jungles in your capital, and then you are generally, genuinely and genitally "screwed".

Any expert advice on how to get out of a dense-jungle start when you don't if you don't even start with crafting?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

If you're surrounded by jungles, it might be better to ignore sanitation for a while and rush for sorcery instead. Your mages can then continuously create fireballs, which can burn the whole jungle down. Also, once the fire is gone the jungle is left as burnt forests, which will eventually regrow as forests instead of jungle (very good if you are playing as the elves/FoL).

You could also try playing a game starting in the classical age. Sanitation isn't very far off then (but beware that barbs all start with bronze weapons, in addition to being stronger)

 

[Sureshot]

Rather than ask "whats the fastest way to sanitation?" I'd like to wonder "whats the best way to deal with jungles?"

1. Rush Sanitation.
Benefits:
-Early Crafting, good if you have wines around, you'll need it for mining later anyways
-Masonry, good if you have marble around
-Construction, siege weapons are powerful
-Sanitation, better farms in addition to a good health building (infirmaries) and happiness building (public bathes)
Drawbacks:
-Miss out on religions
-Ignoring economy
-siege weapons are good, but not all purpose
All in all, for me it would depend on the civ, the basic benefits aren't enough, but if a few extras like Barnaxus if you're Luichurp, or skull catapults if you're Doviello could make it worthwhile.

2. Rush Fire Mages
Benefits:
-early mages make for an unstoppable force
Drawbacks:
-ignoring economy
-Miss out on a religion (tho Ashen Veil shares some techs with this route)
-requires Fire Mana
Would really depend on the civ

3. Rush Ring of Fire
Benefits:
-Having a religion is nice (Order or AV for this)
-Priests are powerful
-will help solve food problem (if AV)
-Easier to start a fire than with Fireballing
Drawbacks:
-ignoring economy (if AV)
-requires Incense (if Order) or Reagents (if AV)

4. Focus on Health and Food
-Agriculture tech, good civic, can conceivably ignore sickness with enough food; granary, herbalist can help deal with sickness from jungles
-Animal Handling, smokehouse can help deal with sickness if those type of resources are around
Just a temporary aid to survive jungle life

5. Improve Economy
Basically just improve economy, like with cottages and the like depending on resources around, so that you're in a better state to try another strategy

6. Improve Research
Another temporary aid to survive jungle life, get some Elder Councils and go for sage specialists

 

[Caradoc]

Another possibility is to spend a couple of turns looking for a starting spot with little or no jungle. Of course that depends on the map, but even on Tropical, the amount of jungle is limited. Build some basic techs with your starting city to get your economy moving, and then when Sanitation is in sight, head into the bush with a Settler to claim those resources.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I like the fireballing approach, burning forests sounds like fun. Moving your initial settler, when tech rates are so slow anyway, sounds like a good idea initially, if the world isn't such a dangerous place in FFH2 compared to regular civ. I think I will stick to fireballs - ring of fire may be too slow when jungles are infesting your cities and ruining your economy.

It's just that if I'm playing as the elves, burning forests and generally relying on fire magic just seems ... wrong. But then since the elves can't build siege weapons, they rely on fire magic to take down cities anyway. (They might as well start with fire magic then)

 

[Caradoc]

Sure the world is dangerous, but you start with a Warrior. Keep it within a couple of squares of the Settler and you'll be Ok.

 

[Copper Golem]

Its rather difficult to add something to Sureshot's post (my respect ).
Even, I think, topic could be closed and put to the FAQ

Only one, somewhat random thing.
Keep in mind our good friend: "Asheron Red Dragon - The Jungle Buster".

It is too random and unpredictable if you are playing two and more continents Huge map.

But if you started 1 continent, small map it's about 70% that Asheron would burn out all jungles and forests too (could be nasty surprise for the elves).

PS
Asheron fires with meteors and could be provoked to do so, but usually AI do this

 

[Vulcans]

I like the fireballing approach, burning forests sounds like fun. Moving your initial settler, when tech rates are so slow anyway, sounds like a good idea initially, if the world isn't such a dangerous place in FFH2 compared to regular civ. I think I will stick to fireballs - ring of fire may be too slow when jungles are infesting your cities and ruining your economy.

It's just that if I'm playing as the elves, burning forests and generally relying on fire magic just seems ... wrong. But then since the elves can't build siege weapons, they rely on fire magic to take down cities anyway. (They might as well start with fire magic then)

teach spring to your fireball mage(or an escort bluff adept), then you can start firew wherever you want, and then put out the fires when they come close to your cottaged forrests

 

[Vulcans]

Its rather difficult to add something to Sureshot's post (my respect ).
Even, I think, topic could be closed and put to the FAQ

Only one, somewhat random thing.
Keep in mind our good friend: "Asheron Red Dragon - The Jungle Buster".

It is too random and unpredictable if you are playing two and more continents Huge map.

But if you started 1 continent, small map it's about 70% that Asheron would burn out all jungles and forests too (could be nasty surprise for the elves).

PS
Asheron fires with meteors and could be provoked to do so, but usually AI do this

one strange thing, a strong unit actually gets experiance by surviving metior strikes. as long as it's strong enough to withstand the blow, then it'll gain experiance by standing next to Asheron

 

[Nefelia]

I'd go with Charleswatkins suggestion. But then again, I usually spend the first 5-6 turns of the game settler-scouting for huts and better starting locations. Doing this, you are likely to find a gold resource or three to help you with your early research and save the Jungle resources for later expansion.

 

[Copper Golem]

one strange thing, a strong unit actually gets experiance by surviving metior strikes. as long as it's strong enough to withstand the blow, then it'll gain experiance by standing next to Asheron

and other thing.
Do you how destroyed fireball counts?
If it counts like you unit killed by enemy, it could severely change count for peace treaty.

 

[Vulcans]

and other thing.
Do you how destroyed fireball counts?
If it counts like you unit killed by enemy, it could severely change count for peace treaty.

i'm not sure of the exact programing mechanics. all i know is that i get experiance when my unit resists a fireball/metior. and i also noticed 200% WW when using lost of fireballs. unfortunatly i also used some skeleton cannon fodder in that situation which would have also affected WW results, it'd be good to do a test to see if losing fireballs increases WW.

at first glance it appears as if fireballs are treated like units. if fireballs cause WW, or change peace treaty counts then maybe their excessive use might have to be re-considered in some situations.

WW also comes from destroying ennemies. so maybe a test could be run, size 1000 city, lots of arcmages, and the ennemy with coppergolem (you don't want to skew WW results from counting AI casualties). then you could accertain if loss of fireballs cause WW.

if fireballs cound for experiance from killing ennemy units, and also count for WW, then it seems logical that they would probably also count for peace treaty calculations

 

[Draconian]

I tested this with worldbuilder a while ago. Fireballs/Meteors and summoned units only add to your WW when they win a fight, not if they die.

 

[Vulcans]

good to know.
well it's still a bit silly that units can get experiance from standing next to Asheron. this would be a good option for magic resistant civilizations to level units.