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Favorite and Least Favorite Opponents

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Minou, Sep 21, 2020.

  1. Minou

    Minou Prince

    Apr 19, 2013
    In my last game I had high production at the start and decided to crank out a Warrior and Archer army to conquer my closest neighbor. Everything seemed to be going according to plan until I found out that was Mapuche. Their special ability of +10 combat against Civs in a Golden Age (stacked with the +4 Combat bonus from Deity) made my army look like a bunch of preschoolers with nerf guns. This got me thinking about which AIs I love/hate to see, so I wrote up a list. This was in the context of violent Space victory, obviously the list would be quite different for other victory types.

    Civs I like to see (roughly in order)

    1. Sumeria: Gilgabro rules. He's a guaranteed friend which means you are safe if he is your closest neighbor, you are pretty sure to get the Diplomatic Service boost, and you will have a trade partner the whole game.

    2. Sweden: They grossly overpay for DF, providing lots of early game cash

    3. Georgia: They also overpay for DF. Apparently they favor walls, but in many of my games they fail to get Ancient Walls before a Warrior/Archer rush or Horseman rush.

    4. Korea: Yes, I would like to pillage and capture those cheap Campus districts please.

    5. Maori: Maybe luck based, but it always seems like they found at least one random isolated city that is super easy to conquer if it shows up near your core. Sometimes it can even by captured with just loyalty! Plus, their preference for Theater Squares is nice.

    6. Greece: Mostly because they provide the best route to some early Theater Squares which in turn often means some early Great Writers. Gorgo seems worse than Pericles, but I'd generally be happy to meet either.

    7. China: They build lots of early Wonders, which can be really awesome if they are a close neighbor and you get them all for the price of 4 Horsemen. Great Wall is fun to pillage too (not sure how often its actually built though). Often on nice flat land.

    8. Scotland: Not sure if it is random chance but in my games they often seem to build several Campus districts and also seem to pay good prices for DF.

    9. Mali: Seem to often have a weak army and be on fairly open ground, with plenty of Commercial Hubs and mines to pillage. Desert bias makes their land a little worse, but typically only one or two cities are really surrounded by desert.

    10. Canada: They seem to pay more for DF and usually have weak military. The need to denounce is usually not an issue though it sucks when they march an unescorted Settler past and you haven't denounced yet.

    11. Russia: Always seem spread out over flat land, absolutely perfect for Horsemen conquest.

    12. Kongo: They can't compete for a religion which is a minor bonus, but more importantly they seem to build lots of Campus and Commercial Hubs - I assume this is because they can't built Holy Sites. Their special unit can be annoying but isn't the worst, more irritating is the jungle bias which makes conquest hard.

    13. Dutch: Pretty easy to satisfy their trading agenda.

    14. India (Ghandi): Have not played against him enough to be sure but he always seems pretty easy to roll over.

    15. Norway: Odd reason, but I sometimes meet one of their ships around T50 and it can help illuminate where the other continent is. I might even declare on them just to reveal any City State they control on the other side of the map.

    16. Brazil: They seem to build lots of Campuses in the few games I have played against them which is in theory good, but often they end up hogging the early Great People. They can be hard to invade with the jungle start bias, though one marginal trick is that their Appeal boost from jungles crosses borders - in one Teddy game I actually got an extra breathing tile by forward settling them.

    Neutral Civs

    Australia, England (either), France (Eleanor), Indonesia, Khmer, Poland (would bump them to weakly positive if they pay more for DF, not 100% sure on that), Spain

    Civs I don't like to see (least bad to worst):

    21. Zulu:
    I take it they are aggressive, but of maybe just luck the few times I have encountered them as neighbor they did not have a huge army. I am more unexcited to see them because they spam Encampments which both are not so valuable to capture and make invasion a pain due to ZOC (once they get ranged attack I am probably backing off entirely).

    20. Germany:
    Depends where they spawn, but they can be a major annoyance by killing important city states. Ranked least of the "bad" Civs because in some games it actually works out as a net positive, for instance if you are rolling over a new continent with Cavalry and can gain instant Suzerain status by freeing one of their victims.

    19. Cree
    : I just got so annoyed the last two times I attacked them by the endless rows of Mekewap that don't provide any gold or faith from pillaging.

    18. Japan: Coastal +5 combat bonus usually is not too big a deal as most cities tend to be off coast, but occasionally causes issues.

    17. Arabia: Makes it a little harder to get a religion. If you have not actually met them this can also be a surprise. I would rank them lower but in many games they just build Holy Sites and get the religion anyway so the ability is often moot.

    16. Inca: They land here not so much from any ability but because their mountain bias often makes attacks difficult.

    15. Rome: Legions are strong. The monument in every city would make conquest more appealing except it seems like every AI almost always builds one first anyway.

    14. Persia: Immortals can make invasions very tough. On the plus side if they are far away and you rush someone, you actually get a diplomatic bonus for the surprise declaration.

    13. Ethiopia: Hill combat bonus can be a little annoying. Ideally you are avoiding attacking units on hills anyway, but with their start bias its likely this will come up.

    12. Gran Colombia: Maybe they should be ranked worse, have actually only spawned against me once so I don't have a good idea of how effectively they use their combat advantaged.

    11. Macedonia: No useful attribute and strong unique units. Hard to make friends with if met early.

    10. Maya: Their unique Archer unit is a pain even when Horsemen are loose. On the other hand, they do tend to build more Campus districts,

    9. Scythia: Double cavalry makes them a strong opponent. On the plus side, they spam their special improvement which can provide tons of faith.

    8. Mongolia: Powerful cavalry but it is sometimes possible to attack before they get enough Horses. The Diplomatic Visibility ability is strong but I have not played around enough to know if they are likely to target the player with Trade Routes.

    7. Frances (Catherine): Their extra visibility translates to +3 combat, fairly meaningful in a Warrior/Archer rush.

    6. India (Chandragupta): Varus can really be a an invasion-stopper.

    5. America (Rough Rider Teddy): The +5 combat is a pain for early conquest.

    4. Egypt: Spammed Maryannu Chariot Archers ruin early invasions. On the plus side the bonus to Trade Routes is marginally helpful (would be better but I almost always need my first Trader for an envoy quest).

    3. Nubia: Always seem to have a powerful army, boosted by their unique unit.

    3. Hungary: I really like cultivating City States and Hungary can make it very hard with their +2 envoy bonus.

    2. Aztecs: Really strong Warrior replacement makes them very difficult to attack early game. They also get really mad at you easily for having luxuries (not a big problem at the start, but mid-game when you actually need several to maintain happiness it can be obnoxious).

    1. Mapuche: See above!
  2. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

    Jul 31, 2017
    Minnesota, USA
    I dislike facing Mapuche. It’s punishment for doing well. And he has that stupid smug grin on his face. Grrr.

    I also hate finding a Korea because that means I am gonna have to deal with them before they get out of hand.

    I don’t really have any favorite neighbors though. Diplomacy just isn’t that deep for me.
    Jkchart likes this.
  3. OmegaDestroyer

    OmegaDestroyer King

    Feb 16, 2018
    I don't have anyone I really like to meet but hate? Oh, let me tell you...

    1. Korea - I am not clawing at the dirt; I am burying your civilization, you obnoxious, dull excuse for a civ. I sincerely hope you are more interesting in the next game. Also, it is super fun dealing with early knights and crossbows due to lazy design of "let's make them good at science." Brilliant.

    2. Nubia - People whine Gran Colombia is overpowered. They must not have started next to Nubia on higher difficulties. Enjoy being buried under an avalanche of potato archers.

    3. Australia - How I despise running into that Muppet. Shouldn't he be more self-loathing if he hates warmongerers?
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  4. LMT

    LMT Warlord

    Sep 4, 2013
    I actually like seeing Mongolia because they don't tend to stab you in the back. I've found that if you get on good terms with them, and they're not a runaway, they will stay loyal to you. Plus, how can you not chuckle when Genghis makes that gesture with his thumb and index fingers, insulting your cavalry.

    I like seeing Rome on the map, just not as an immediate neighbor. I like settling lots of cities and Trajan likes it too. I just make sure my army is stronger than his.

    I don't like seeing the Mapuche. They're always mad no matter what I do. I play peaceful, so that makes Gorgo angry as well, though she doesn't irk me as much as Lautaro.

    And the Dutch...how can I possibly trade with you when I don't even have the ability to build a trader yet? Give me some time! Not a fan.
  5. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir King

    Jul 15, 2020
    IMHO this list can be separated to "least favorite abilities/unique units" and "least favorite agendas", because I feel like dislike being rushed by Legions and dislike being constantly denounced due to having more Great Admirals are two very different forms of dislikes.
    cylenalag likes this.
  6. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Idea Fountain

    Aug 28, 2008
    Yes, yes and yes. I specifically HATE Australia, always simpering how "war is a blight on humanity" or whatever but then himself being a raaaaging warmongering psychopath, like every other AI. He also shows up in a critical majority of my games. "This jackass... uggggggh. :gripe:" -- Lord Lakely, in 8/10 of his recent Civ VI games.

    Sunduck sucks. PEDRO sucks. ("Those great people would definitely prefer ~my country~. :smugoftheearth:" no they don't shut up get your own you smaugoleupagus). I'm also sick of encountering Harald every other game with his dreary music and his ship-shipping shut up i am NOT getting a navy this is ~Civilization VI~ boats suck and so do you.
    Jkchart likes this.
  7. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

    Aug 12, 2010
    I tend to play on the peaceful side. I like seeing Gilgamesh and Kristina. Gil is a bro. Kristina always provides those WC competitions for me to win.

    I dislike Wilhelmina. She hates me before I can even manage to get a trade route to her.
    LMT and 8housesofelixir like this.
  8. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

    Dec 1, 2017
    There are only two things I can't stand in this world. Intolerance to other people's cultures. And the Dutch Australians.

    Seriously though. I can’t stand secret warmonger Curtin. All that hat throwing and forward settling. In the Grim Dark Future (or, like, whenever I meet Australia), there is only WAR.
  9. Revanchist

    Revanchist Warlord

    Jun 10, 2020
    There was a typo when translating from heavy australian. Curtin didn’t mean the hawks of war, he meant the vultures - as they are well on their way to your husk of a civilization after he surprise wars you on turn 10.

    Wilhelmina needs a complete rework and I still want and prefer Wilhelm over her. The netherlands could go without a leader and I would not notice the bonus whatsoever.
    8housesofelixir likes this.
  10. TeddyMain

    TeddyMain Warlord

    Jun 30, 2019
    Pedro and Victoria's agendas are the bane of my existence. Also Russia since, while I almost always satisfy his agenda, the sheer amount of GP he hordes is annoying to deal with.

    I love it when Poundmaker shows up though. Almost every game I've played with him I've gotten an instant alliance with, and with his agenda, our alliance levels just snowball. Love that guy.

    And of course, Gilgabro.
    Zaarin likes this.
  11. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

    May 14, 2016
    Terok Nor
    "Oh, the Clutch of Glaives. That means you should start sending some GWAM over to your dumpier friends! Ooh, and the Cult of Ray! That means you should seriously stop hogging all the GWAM!"
  12. Navelgazer

    Navelgazer King

    Jul 4, 2012
    Alexander is definitely the AI I least like to see. Latauro I can deal with, even though I strive for continuous golden ages. Amanitore is a tough early neighbor, to be sure. I go for as many Suzerainities as I can, so both Perlicles and Barbarosa are annoyances. Cleo wants you to have an army of swordsman even if she meets you on turn two, and Wilhelmina is similar, but with trade. Neither are fun.

    Gilgabro is obviously the best AI to meet in the game. I'm also fine with meeting Catherine, as she's easy enough to stay friendly with.
  13. Minou

    Minou Prince

    Apr 19, 2013
    I guess I should clarify that typically I plan on conquering most of the AIs while keeping 1 or 2 as friends if possible, so I generally want to (1) ones that build valuable districts juicy improvements to pillage and (2) ones that don't have a powerful early unique unit (not worried about late ones they will never build). For the ones I hope to friend, easy agendas are nice but more importantly I want those DF-grubbers who pay ridiculous amounts for a near worthless thing.

    I never feel guilty conquering them because they are for the most part so annoying. Asking you not to settle near them, walk through their land, give them free stuff, mad because you don't have a navy on T10, etc.
  14. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir King

    Jul 15, 2020
    IMHO a conquer-centered strategy/playstyle like this is probably why FXS specifically designed Mapuche as a Golden-Age-targeting civ.

    Like being a hyper-warmonger and conquer everything in sight? Here is a much harder nut for you to crack!

    (TBH the Mapuches IRL was a hard nut as well, one of the hardest among Native Americans.)
  15. James_Champagne

    James_Champagne Warlord

    Sep 7, 2019
    Yeah, that is amusing. It's true though that Mongolia tends to stay loyal, I had a game recently where it seems every single civ was denouncing me the whole game, except for Mongolia, who remained my friend the entire time.
  16. myclan

    myclan Prince

    Feb 26, 2008
    Mapuche is good at science, too, at least before Modern Age. Its +10 Cuirassier and field cannon were alomst unstoppable when I was still in the Renaissance. It was lucky that AI wasn't able to use them well.
    8housesofelixir likes this.
  17. oedali

    oedali King

    Apr 6, 2007
    Washington, DC
    I like

    Sumeria - friend from turn 0
    Cree - like shared visibility from alliance
    Sweden - usually on weak side so easy to backstab and conquer when time is right
    England - if on same continent easy to befriend

    Don’t like

    Russia - toughest competitor for RV
    Japan - also tough competitor for RV and usually has good military and uses it well
    America - their +5 is quite substantial and scary if you start as neighbors
  18. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

    Aug 19, 2012
    Some civs I like:
    • Sumeria: Always bff.
    • Khmer: Don't seem to excel at anything, yes they'll spam religion, but not too badly most of the time.
    • Maori: Generally performs poorly, likes to settle first city in icy wilderness and then struggle for the rest of the game.
    • Canada: A bit of a two-edged sword, but normally they don't cause too much challenge and the tundra start is bad for them.
    • Dutch: Doesn't compete too well in any particular area in most of my games, while she's normally unfriendly, she rarely causes me serious trouble.
    Some civs I dislike:
    • Russia: Ugh! Excessive religion spam and steals all GWAM. Seems to spawn in 90 % of my games. Begone!
    • Scotland: Doesn't perform that great, but steals all Scientists and Engineers, which is a huge nuisance.
    • Korea: Ridiculous science runaway in many games, steals all Scientists and will cause serious trouble of not contained early.
    • Greece (particularly Pericles): Pretty much the same as Korea, just with culture instead.
    • Not sure who to list here, but some runner ups: Germany (steals Engineers, aggressive), Poland (excessive religion spam), America and Egypt (dangerous neighbors).
  19. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

    Aug 21, 2010
    Łódź, PL
    I only have dislikes.

    1) Eleonor. This is brutal. Having her as a neighbour early means she can flip any city you already conquered. Basically you need golden era to fight her and also need golden era to fight any common neighbour. I hate those cases when I fight for example Brazil and all Brazilian cities I already conquerd, flip to Eleonor instead of becoming temporary free cities. At least she is not a great unit spammer and will give you some theatres. but after some pain.

    yes, ability to take take cities without the stage of free cty makes Eleonor my biggest nightmare

    2) Mapuche
    +10 while golden era and +4 for diff level and +4 from government... So maybe be friendly? This case mapuche will steal a lot of great scientists.

    3) Mongolia.
    Befriend of suffer wars spears against tanks. Or declare before first trader.

    Refering to Mapuche and Mongolia - they are usually harder t befriend than Aztecs. Aztecs are easy friends, so not on the list
  20. Arianrhod

    Arianrhod Warlord

    Apr 25, 2017
    Most AI Civs feel pretty interchangeable to me so I just hate the ones with annoying music like Australia, Canada, and the Maori. By contrast I'm always happy to see someone like Tamar drop her mixtape.

    For actual gameplay Gil is obviously the best possible outcome. Australia or Russia being in the game basically always makes the game worse, by contrast, because even when they're not actually threatening you they're still being super annoying. Wilhelmina is somehow both because she loves denouncing everyone but isn't remotely threatening, so she's a good first conquest and often even the AI will kill her off if you don't lmao.
    FinalDoomsday likes this.

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