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Favorite Civics Revision

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Steb, Sep 2, 2020.

  1. Steb

    Steb King

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    From Leoreth:
    I made a Google Sheet with each leader's current favorite civic. (I also put favorite religions, though I don't expect these to change much.) It's freely editable, so you can write suggestions in it, and/or discuss them here.

    As I said in the Suggestions and Requests thread, I think Macdonald should get Individualism instead of Democracy. From compiling the data, I think there are many further opportunities for improvement.
     
  2. MechatronicJazz

    MechatronicJazz Warlord

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    Could you add a tab with the current civics in their categories? I don't have DoC installed at the moment, but I would still like to contribute if I can. It would also be a handy reference even with the mod installed. Thanks!
     
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  3. Steb

    Steb King

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    Sure. I put the civic lists from CvEnums.h in a second tab. Feel free to make it prettier.
     
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  4. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Great. Would love some suggestions based on that. The other perspective may also be useful: how many and which leaders have each civic. Could help bring currently underused civics into the preferences more.
     
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  5. Steb

    Steb King

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    Good point. I added some numbers in the second tab. It looks like all civics are represented at least once, except Multilateralism and the basic civics in each category (though Sovereignty is there, for Hiram). Theocracy is the most popular choice.
     
  6. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Interesting.
     
  7. Steb

    Steb King

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    There are already many suggestions in the doc!

    I tried thinking of something for Saladin. Theocracy makes sense for the caliph Harun al-Rashid, but Saladin wasn't a caliph, and I don't get the feeling that his Ayyubid dynasty was particularly based on religious government. It would be nice to have something different for both Arab leaders, too. Ideas?
     
  8. LikeNothing

    LikeNothing Chieftain

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    Thought about this too.

    Ideally would be Tolerance, but failing that Vassalage or Monarchy?
     
  9. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Thanks to everyone who added suggestions! I will definitely circle back to this at some point, might just take a while.
     
  10. Dominus the Mentat

    Dominus the Mentat Warlord

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    Maybe Conquest ? Saladin have built an empire in a moment of instability of the Islam in its roots. It fits well with his legacy of uniting the Islam core regions under one leadership.
     
  11. Steb

    Steb King

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    I like Vassalage because Saladin was considered a chivalric ideal by the Europeans, but I have no idea if that fits the actual society of the Middle East at the time of the crusades.

    We may also need to consider that there is no Arab leader after Saladin, so the Arabs will be stuck with whatever his favorite civic is for the entire late game, unless a new leader is added.
     
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  12. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Wasn't there an Ibn Saud leaderhead somewhere? I remember thinking about adding him.
     
  13. Malchar

    Malchar Prince

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    Monarchy could make sense as a compromise since Arabia continues to have a monarchy to this day.
     
  14. Dominus the Mentat

    Dominus the Mentat Warlord

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    This one ?
     
  15. trevor

    trevor Warlord

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    That's a pretty damn interesting mod.
     
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  16. eva09755291

    eva09755291 Chieftain

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    I think tributaries will suit Taizong better than meritocracy.
    科舉(ke ju, or imperial examination by wikipedia) wasn't well developed, for the process could be easily manipulated by the examination officials.For example, candidates could visit examination officials before the examination and ask them commenting on poems they wrote which known as 行卷(xíng juàn). In this way, it was the candidate's relationship with examination officials nor his ability decided whether he would pass the examination. Second, most high-rank officials were military nobility, powerful gentry, or royal family members. It wasn't until Song dynasty that imperial examination became a less biased process, and more candidates came from lower social class.
    On the contrary, Taizong is praised for the military victory over the eastern and Western Turkic Khaganate and control of Western Regions.He gained the title "Khan of Heaven" from submitting nomad leaders.Most city states and nomads became tributary states of Tang dynasty until Tang dynasty retreated from Western Regions after An Lushan Rebellion devastated the country.
    By the way, there is a mistake in the civilopedia of meritocracy. 九品官人法(jiǔ pǐn guān rén fǎ, or Nine-rank system by civilopedia) have nothing to do with meritocracy. It was controlled by 門閥(mén fá, wikipedia don't have an article about it. In brief, it means gentry clans with members being influential officials for several generations that they become independent feudal lords with their own manor and army). In fact, 劉毅(liú yì, a high-rank officials during early Western Jin dynasty) commented "There are no poor people in the upper ranks and no powerful families in the lower ones".
     
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  17. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Yes!
     
  18. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Hey, I plan to give this a look soon. Time for another push of suggestions if you want to get yours in before that.
     
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  19. SultanRedSnake

    SultanRedSnake Chieftain

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    The boss asked for suggestions so here go.

    Alfonso Henriques has Colonialism but the civic isn’t available while he is ruler so it’s kinda wasted. I’d suggest Monarchy (if this isn’t too generic), since he was crowned the first king of a newly independent Portugal.

    In general, Theocracy seems to be over-represented. Manorialism, the dominant economic model for all of medieval Europe, has no representation. Monarchy could apply to so many rulers that, for the sake of variety, I think it should be limited to a specific few for which monarchy was particularly important in some way.

    I'd also be remiss if I neglected to compliment Steb on his most excellent contribution.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
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  20. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Thanks, but it will be easier if you use the Google sheet in the OP so I can easily find your suggestion.
     

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