1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Favorite Firaxis Quotes

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Stretchy Man, Dec 1, 2010.

  1. cccv

    cccv King

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    798
    Yeah, but it depends on how he means it, I guess. You're thinking he means Gandhi will randomly DOW=there will be no reason for him to do it, he just will. I'm interpreting more as "if you make him mad (ie, give him a reason), he may or may not DOW." So the random aspect isn't whether he has a reason, but whether or not he'll use the reason to DOW in the end.

    I know it's kind of a moot point though, since they failed at diplo so hard that the AI almost always has a reason. "You liberated our capital" translates to the AI as "you're bloodthirsty," which gives them a "reason" =/
     
  2. Fistalis

    Fistalis Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2009
    Messages:
    373
    To further the conversation a bit. I wouldn't mind the whole "backstabbing" AI if it were a personality trait specific to certain rulers.. but the way its implemented is just horrid.
     
  3. cccv

    cccv King

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    798
    Yeah, then we get back to the AI "playing to win/playing like a human vs roleplaying" debate. I'm surprised it's still a debate though, since it seems pretty clear that "playing like a human" just isn't something the AI can do well. I may understand what Shirk was trying to say before, but I still agree that the game just can't do what they want it to do, which isn't what many of us wanted it to do to begin with.
     
  4. zonk

    zonk Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    572
    It's funny, I thought Shirk and Shafer were too young, but it's become clear --- they must have been the ones that ruined Leisure Suit Larry, too!
     
  5. generalwar

    generalwar Philosopher

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    407
    Location:
    Croatia
    Shouldn't 2K or Firaxis be accused of false marketing campaign or smth like that? I'm asking these seriously. They are lying in your face and that's all right? And it's a real epic fail that with Gandhi, at least they said smth that is true :lol: .
     
  6. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,720
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Zagreb, Croatia
    I seriously begin to wonder if Firaxis are actually a game development company, graphics and animations aside (which are amazing).
     
  7. Zogar

    Zogar Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    117
    Epic. It still amazes me when there are some people who claim that civ5 is exactly what the developpers said it would be. Definite proof it is not ! (the part about Shafer being a prodige is pretty funny)
     
  8. Hormagaunt

    Hormagaunt Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    205
    No, they aren't. Really, they aren't.

    Civ4 has growing trees, blowing wind, and good-looking rivers. It has farms with lights on, mines with furnaces going, and orchards with fruit being gathered.

    Civ5 has static trees, no growth, and blue-painted canals. When you look (from outside the city), there's no way to tell which hexes are being used and which aren't.
     
  9. Hormagaunt

    Hormagaunt Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    205
    Like most core aspects of Civilization, the fifth iteration in the series has taken AI to a new height. Elizabeth Tobey.

    ... and pushed it off. It landed on it's head.


    When you get to the top tier of difficult, the AI can be brutal – I know that I’m not the only one who has accused the computer of cheating when on an expert level. Tobey.

    And you'd be right.


    Civilization V as a whole, with Jon designing it, is a big call to them (fan community), to say, "Thank you. This is what you've been asking for. Dennis Shirk.

    I don't recall asking for a kick in the nads.


    Sid will make sure it's all balanced, so it's not people spending all the money who'll win all the time. Marketing woman.

    Yup! If you spend that money, you won't be able to use the proceeds to play with others!


    Sid is always playing the game and giving his input. He's just instrumental in everything we do. He can look at a game, play for five minutes, and automatically pinpoint if something's not quite going to work over a five-hour session. He's just really good at it, so I would say Sid's always got his hands pretty thoroughly in everything. Dennis Shirk.


    He's our local wunderkind (child prodigy). He does amazing stuff, and is a huge fan of history. Shirk talking about Shafer.

    Umm, he was an adult 20 years ago. If he's the wunderkind now... how old are you guys anyway?


    We have a young designer like Jon who is excellent at everything he does, but even he needs help. Even Sid needs help sometimes. Shirk.



    Jon Shafer had an incredibly daunting task, but from what we’ve seen so far from the press and the fans, he succeeded. Shirk.

    At what?


    The thing is, Civ V is a big sloppy kiss/love letter to our fan community. We want it to be for the hardcore. Shirk.

    Hardcore what?


    War is fun, and blowing stuff up is awesome, but Civilization is about building. War is still a part that equation, obviously, but other options make more sense now. Shirk.

    Like building things to blow stuff up!


    We wanted to add depth to the combat system, but war isn't more advantageous as a tactic. If you like war, there's more depth for you there. We're trying to equalise as much as possible. It speaks to different people's playstyles. Some people only play it as a war game, some people only conquer. On the other extreme, you've got people who never fight at all. We need to cater to both these groups, and we need to balance those approaches. Shafer.

    Yeah, them wargamers versus them conquerors. And people who never fight at all? They're called targets.


    Now, aside from that, although we are removing religion as it was in Civilization IV, we're never removing something completely from the game, especially something that fans liked, and leaving an empty hole. There are other systems coming into play that we're not talking about yet that are going to make people very happy. Shirk.

    Yes, religion is still in the game. You can pray that it doesn't crash (this actually seems to work for some people; not me, unfortunately).


    If you're playing against Gandhi and he doesn't declare war randomly on you at some point, then we haven't done our job. Shirk.

    Covered this one in a prior post.
     
  10. zonk

    zonk Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    572
    Heh...

    Pretty good.

    Let me add some of my own.

    Like most core aspects of Civilization, the fifth iteration in the series has taken AI to a new height. Elizabeth Tobey.

    Garbled in transmission... I think what Liz meant to say is that unlike most core aspects of Civlization, you have to be really, really high to lose to the AI.

    When you get to the top tier of difficult, the AI can be brutal – I know that I’m not the only one who has accused the computer of cheating when on an expert level. Tobey.

    Oh, it's brutal alright... just not in the way you think.

    Civilization V as a whole, with Jon designing it, is a big call to them (fan community), to say, "Thank you. This is what you've been asking for. Dennis Shirk.

    OK, I want names. Who asked for the death of the series? NAMES!


    Sid will make sure it's all balanced, so it's not people spending all the money who'll win all the time. Marketing woman.

    ....because we've made diplomatic, pink science, and blue science victories so darn boring that you won't have the stomach to spend time accumulating and spending much money!

    Sid is always playing the game and giving his input. He's just instrumental in everything we do. He can look at a game, play for five minutes, and automatically pinpoint if something's not quite going to work over a five-hour session. He's just really good at it, so I would say Sid's always got his hands pretty thoroughly in everything. Dennis Shirk.

    OK, I see the problem. Has anyone informed Mr. Shirk and company that Sid Meier created Civilization, not Sid Vicious? And that Sid Vicious has been dead 30 years? Didn't Firaxis wonder why the corpse they dug just sat there?


    He's our local wunderkind (child prodigy). He does amazing stuff, and is a huge fan of history. Shirk talking about Shafer.

    So why didn't they ask this wunderkind to help out on V? Because the one that they did get brought none of those things to the table.

    We have a young designer like Jon who is excellent at everything he does, but even he needs help. Even Sid needs help sometimes. Shirk.

    So why didn't you get him any on this edition?

    Jon Shafer had an incredibly daunting task, but from what we’ve seen so far from the press and the fans, he succeeded. Shirk.

    I really don't see why I should care about the opinion of inanimate objects, much less any proof that they HAVE opinions... to say nothing of, geez -- you guys couldn't spring for air conditioning?

    Surely, you must be talking about the kind with blades and speed settings.


    The thing is, Civ V is a big sloppy kiss/love letter to our fan community. We want it to be for the hardcore. Shirk.

    Well, Denny.... let me just say you guys are really, really, really bad kissers. I'm sure St Bernards give really big and really sloppy kisses, too -- but I'm not aware of many people wanting one.


    War is fun, and blowing stuff up is awesome, but Civilization is about building. War is still a part that equation, obviously, but other options make more sense now. Shirk.

    Many of these words do not seem to mean what you think they mean.

    We wanted to add depth to the combat system, but war isn't more advantageous as a tactic. If you like war, there's more depth for you there. We're trying to equalise as much as possible. It speaks to different people's playstyles. Some people only play it as a war game, some people only conquer. On the other extreme, you've got people who never fight at all. We need to cater to both these groups, and we need to balance those approaches. Shafer.

    ...and we accomplished this by making everything but war so boring that everyone will want to conquer! See how easy that was to equalize?

    Now, aside from that, although we are removing religion as it was in Civilization IV, we're never removing something completely from the game, especially something that fans liked, and leaving an empty hole. There are other systems coming into play that we're not talking about yet that are going to make people very happy. Shirk.

    Ahhh yes... See? We didn't leave any holes. Government? It's in there. Religion? It's in there. Just don't step on that big pink tarp we threw over the hol... err... we put in the game. And if you DO step on it, that big, empty thing you fell into? It's not a hole. It's a stream(line)... or something.

    If you're playing against Gandhi and he doesn't declare war randomly on you at some point, then we haven't done our job. Shirk.

    Mission Accomplished.

    Firaxis ought to give Shirk a flightsuit and aircraft carrier to land on... He's already got the banner, apparently.
     
  11. Slowpoke

    Slowpoke The Mad Modder

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,321
    Jon Shafer had an incredibly daunting task, but from what we’ve seen so far from the press and the fans, he succeeded

    Shafer, you've done one heck of a job.
     
  12. CivFanaticMan

    CivFanaticMan Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    249
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    HAHAHA I forgot about these quotes! I remember hearing or reading them before and I though " Wow Civ5 is going to be the best Civ yet!!!" 3 months later.... I laugh at this and condem it as a joke.

    I guess Steam just gave the developers the balls to release an unfinished game because they though "oohh god the game isn't finished yet but we said we would have it done by september 21st! Oh well lets hope the pretty graphics and new combat system keep people entertained until we can fix the game through steam."

    It also occurred to me that almost everything "new and innovative" in Civ5 revolves around the new combat system. As if this game was ment to be a war game.

    And I agree Civ5 needs to be optimized for the builder. Almost every hardcore civ player is a 'builder'. You don't buy a civ game and expect some epic war game, you buy it because you want to build up a civilization and have fun doing so.
     
  13. Peregrine

    Peregrine The Swift

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2001
    Messages:
    440
    Location:
    The Nether Regions
    This is the funniest thread since the "advance look at VI" thread.

    All I can say is ""Welcome to the bizzaro world."
     
  14. ThERat

    ThERat Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Messages:
    11,335
    Location:
    City of one angel
    Totally hilarious quotes :lol:

    Makes me wonder where those so called community managers have gone to? Haven't seen them here for a long while. I know criticism can be hard to stomach, but that's what you get when you brag about an unreleased game so much...
     
  15. 2K Elizabeth

    2K Elizabeth <span style="font-weight:bold; text-decoration: un

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    175
    Location:
    Novato, CA
    Google reader popped this thread. Hi guys!

    Greg, the community manager of Civilization, is over at the 2K Forums. He is still around here sometimes, but as you can imagine, duty calls and the official forums are where he hangs out most of the time. If you ever need him, however, he's over there.
     
  16. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    9,312
    Location:
    Australia
    Some of these quotes really only look so silly because they are without their context. Particularly the Gandhi one - I think that was back from February or so earlier this year. An aspect of the AI that people complained about for civ4 was that under certain conditions AIs were far too predictable. Gandhi hardly ever declared war even when it was clearly in his best interest.

    The fact that all leaders are more easily go to war now if it suits them is not a change that is universally hated - you'll find people who appreciate the change. The problem is that a lot of the other changes to diplomacy (or the game for that matter) would counter that appreciation.
     
  17. ThERat

    ThERat Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Messages:
    11,335
    Location:
    City of one angel
    I do agree that Civ 4 diplomacy was too predictable and the AI would happily let you win the game under certain circumstances. However, I do recall that claim that the new 3 layered AI would sort of blow our minds. I guess while the approach was noble, the result is abysmal. The AI can't handle any of the layers well. The most glaring is the inability to handle 1upt. If I were a developer, I would take this as a lesson and maybe step away from that concept all together. Civ 3 and Civ 4 had pretty stupid AI as well but it was a little better masked (esp in Civ 4). In Civ 3, the AI sort of made the game real fun maybe not even by design. But what matters is the fun that we get out of the game. Best intentions don't count if it ain't fun.
     
  18. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,715
    Did they sad somewhere that they had to damp down AI on low levels because it was soo smart? :)
     
  19. Venereus

    Venereus This Is Streamlined!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,026
    Watch your words guys, they're watching...:eek: [/tinfoil hat]
     
  20. Jarwy

    Jarwy Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    119
    Hey Liz, thanks for posting.

    I checked 2k forums after reading this and I was glad to see there were many people there too with the best interests of civ fanatics in mind. I hope you all choose to listen to us and improve the game to be as successful as its precedents.

    They will forgive us. We are just being fanatical about their game. :mischief:
     

Share This Page