[BTS] Favorite Oracle yield

What tech to take?

  • Theology (a nobrainer, most beakers)

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • CoL (can run caste and bulb your way)

    Votes: 8 50.0%
  • Currency (cash is king)

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • MC (strong military path and faster Astro)

    Votes: 6 37.5%

  • Total voters
    16

Major Tom

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You have alpha, mono and BW. Cannot afford CoL for CS slingshot.
Your rivals are mostly bullies or zealots. Assume deity if that matters.
 
This might be a good place to talk about Oracle. While it's almost useless in normal deity games (since your chance of getting it is rather low) you certainly can get it on immortal if you really want. However, I think more often than not just getting more cities up asap is much better than going for Oracle. Another issue is if you can get it after initial expansion to 4-6 cities at what point I think it becomes tempting again. Maybe it's too late on immortal at that point, though.
 
Good point. Oracle not great on Deity. Over to IMM, you have some space to expand anyway and marble plus strong production and techs from trade, it might be a common position. In some circumstances, getting a religion and spreading next door could improve diplo significantly, so would like Theo. If game turns sour there is the AP card to play, too.

Thinking of it, new to deity, the religious victory should be relatively easy?
 
The latest NC game (NC200 Wilhelm) has possibilities for an oracle gambit on deity.
I think that ironworking was the best alternative in that game.

It really depends on the map, just looking at beakers really leads you astray.
 
Of the alternatives provided, I think CoL is the tech that comes into consideration first most of the time.
MC is more situational.
 
Funny that everything can be so situational (I guess except granary, although even here we can have specific conditions too with some food poor or food ultra rich situations :D )
Under certain setup (NTT for example as I have big experience with that) Oracle value by itself (even if built) is lower (so low priority even to gamble for it, unless multiple gold/gems+Marble and no crazy AI near that would require HBR for example ASAP) but it can give big boost towards specific direction and if there is need (overall quick land "check" gives some <300 beakers output with all cities online) for Astro sooner, MC. If there is clear religion situation and some good place to work around (no religion near) - Theo, if Confu already is gone but no need for religion (already there), CoL for CS could work better. But sometimes even Math or IW can be better if it gives instant access to something useful (big chops or mutiple gems etc.).
 
I used to build Oracle and take CoL in almost every Noble game,but now on Prince I do it rarely because I don't think it's worth it. If you don't have Mysticism you have to research 3 techs that you don't need early in the game.
 
I used to build Oracle and take CoL in almost every Noble game,but now on Prince I do it rarely because I don't think it's worth it. If you don't have Mysticism you have to research 3 techs that you don't need early in the game.
Yes, this is the biggest issue. And it only gets worse at every higher difficulty.

For me to consider oracle, the map has to first say to me:
"Dude, you need to go monarchy pretty early here!"
This makes the path through myst->med->pristhood not a wasted effort.

Basically the thing is that you can't really diverge too much from the teching that you really need, and the worker actions that you really need.
Some openings give you more freedom early on.
If you start with only one type of (early) food, such as only corn and you start with agriculture, or only seafood and you start with fishing or in the rare cases hunting, then you have more freedom with what to tech, and it's easier to fit in the oracle techs.

The availability of marble or not, is not something that I think too much about, the oracle is not expensive hammerwise so building it without marble is also ok.
Availability of forest is more imortant.
If you have marble riverside or coastal close to your capital, you can settle on the marble and get it connected right away, such that you don't have to tech the wheel or sailing to hook it up, you also save the large ammount of workerturns needed to build the quarry and road to it.
 
Default when I build is probably CoL. Don't build it too often, unless I have a strong commerce start where I can tech the garbage I don't need very quickly.
 
Default for me is MC. I play huge maps, so it’ll be gone if you don’t push for it, so I almost never have Alpha or Mono when I build it, making MC the biggest beaker tech to grab. If I need a religion on my land mass, I’ll grab CoL.
 
Basically the thing is that you can't really diverge too much from the teching that you really need

I find beeline alpha often is a game changer, then those required techs almost are "free". Chop some wood and voila, Oracle is there.
 
I think on immortal most Ai tech alphabet pretty quickly. On lower levels alphabet can be better as AI are so slow to it. Then again on the right map monarchy or COL are very useful. Especially for religion and happiness. On Noble it can take forever for an Ai to tech monarchy.

Oracle and marble? Means teching masonry, myst,med and priesthood. Assuming you even get it. Those techs cost 307 beakers on normal. Vs 487 for Alphabet or monarchy. Plus 150 hammers. HBR is 407 beakers. If you start with myst it helps. Especially if nearby Ai have med to reduce costs.

Is this better than worker, grow capital and double settler. In which case how do you squeeze in Oracle on higher levels? I guess every game is situational. Land seems to be key now. 3-4 cities by 2000bc with chopping if possible. Stop ai grabbing key sites too. That assuming you also have the techs for the local resources.
So opportunity cost of free tech vs cost of techs required for Oracle and 150 hammers to build.

On the right start a rush sometimes gives better results by grabbing an AI capital. Early Col or monarchy suggests a peaceful start.

The side benefit of Oracle is GP points. A great priest can be useful if it's not in your GP farm long term.
 
The side benefit of Oracle is GP points. A great priest can be useful if it's not in your GP farm long term.
I find the prophet:gp:-points to be more of an annoyance than anything else. While settling a GP in the BC's in not the worst thing in the world, it is slowing down your astro/liberalism date. Of course, you could run scientists elsewhere quickly to get :gp: from Oracle city as your 3rd or 4th :gp: and can use it to start a golden age.
 
Yeah generally I don't like great priest points. Sometimes you get lucky capturing a shrine.Generally really annoying. I would probably put Oracle in a city I knew was unimportant but had forest if I was going to do it. I actually can't remember last time I built the wonder.
 
Ha..I so very rarely go for Oracle now, but most likely take CoL when I do. However, I think the choice is based much on the situation. Oracle> CoL works pretty nicely early if you are Spiritual. If IND, I likely go for Metal Casting. On lower levels, I'm likely going to shoot for a CS sling.

As Sampsa said, it is often just better to focus those hammers on expansion, especially on higher levels when grabbing Oracle is an uncertain endeavor.
 
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Is this better than worker, grow capital and double settler. In which case how do you squeeze in Oracle on higher levels?

Sure, it is situational. So was hoping replies envisioned this situation and not be a discussion about Oracle generally worth it. In this particular game, had already 5 cities by 1000BC, with 6 and 7th soon finished in city 2&3 while capital could not grow anymore due to happiness issues. Mysticism was initial tech, bee lined alpha got rest of techs in trades (perhaps not priesthood, think I 2 turn tech that). Level was emperor. Axe rushing 15-20 tiles away awkward and risk of getting alienated diplowise. (Edit: remember now I did not have bronze or horses).

Great prophet dumping in giving a shrine also nice. Surprised 0 of 7 not chose currency.

Anyway thank you for your time.
 
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Sure, it is situational. So was hoping replies envisioned this situation and not be a discussion about Oracle generally worth it. In this particular game, had already 5 cities by 1000BC, with 6 and 7th soon finished in city 2&3 while capital could not grow anymore due to happiness issues. Mysticism was initial tech, bee lined alpha got rest of techs in trades (perhaps not priesthood, think I 2 turn tech that). Level was emperor. Axe rushing 15-20 tiles away awkward and risk of getting alienated diplowise.

Great prophet dumping in giving a shrine also nice. Surprised 0 of 7 not chose currency.

Anyway thank you for your time.

I voted for Currency 10 minutes ago :lol:

It is situational, but Currency often lets me get enough gold to tech Code of Laws with 2 prereqs.
I wouldn't do it if I could only trade with 1 or 2 civs of course.

Sometimes if my 1st Great Person is going to be a Prophet I will give the city away and recapture it to clear the :gp: points away, but doing that carries severe diplo consequences of -4 traded with worst enemy (city gift), -3 DOW'd us, and -1 DOW'd our friend.
It is a drastic solution that usually only affects me if I'm playing Philosophical civ.
It also removes all the Plot Culture on the city tile and surrounding 9 tiles, so don't do it if the Oracle City has a contested border.
 
Currency is a great tech obviously, but the problem is that it takes Alpha or Maths to open it up. On high levels, it is rather doubtful that you would have time to grab either of those techs before finishing Oracle. On Emperor it may be possible though, although I may look to go for CS..

CoL and MC are opened up early by rather cheap techs. I would probably vote for Currency if the chances were higher for that opportunity.

Why are you teching Myst first?
 
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