1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[Feature] Additional Wonders

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Jun 18, 2018.

  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth Fluffy Boy Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    31,587
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dark World
    Let's cross another 1.16 feature off the list. I have created a feature branch that adds 50 (yes, fifty) new wonders to the mod, and makes some changes to existing wonders.

    They are available on the wonders branch.

    Added wonders:
    Spoiler :
    Dujiangyan (Construction, Rice): +1 food next to rivers
    Apadana Palace (Arithmetics, Zoroastrianism): +50% worker rate, free Monument in all cities
    Gondeshapur (Medicine, Zoroastrianism): +1 food from Scientist, free Medic I promotion for units built in the city
    Jetavanaramaya (Aesthetics, Buddhism): +1 food from Artist
    Iron Pillar (Steel, Hinduism): free Forge in all cities
    Prambanan (Architecture, Hinduism): +25% food retained on growth in all cities
    Salsal Buddha (Artisanry, Buddhism): trade route connections do not require peace or open borders
    Cheomseongdae (Scholarship, Confucianism + Buddhist state religion): +1 happiness per 10% science rate
    Nalanda University (Scholarship, Hinduism): +2 science per state religion building
    Krak des Chevaliers (Fortification, Islam + Catholic state religion): free Castle in every city, defeated city defenders can retreat to capital
    Monolithic Church (Guilds, Orthodoxy): +2 commerce from Priest
    Saint Sophia's Cathedral (Doctrine, Orthodoxy): +2 espionage per state religion building
    Silver Tree Fountain (Paper, Paganism + Silk): Additional great person born when a great general appears
    Santa Maria del Fiore (Patronage, Catholicism): +100% great people birth rate
    House of Wisdom (Education, Islam): +200% science from great people discoveries
    Saint Thomas Church (Humanities, Protestantism): +2 happiness in all cities
    Vijaya Stambha (Companies, Hinduism): +50% great general birth rate, free City Garrison I promotion for units built in the city
    El Escorial (Exploration, Catholicism): Extra gold for every acquired colony
    Torre de Belem (Optics, Catholicism): +100% foreign trade route yield
    Potala Palace (Statecraft, Buddhism): +1 GPP per Hill in city radius
    The Bourse (Economics, Protestantism): free Bank in every city, +2 free merchants
    Itsukushima Shrine (Geography, Buddhism): +1 GPP per water tile in city radius
    Image of the World Square (Urban Planning, Islam): +4 trade routes
    Louvre (Civil Liberties, Catholicism): +2 free artists, additional culture for every controlled wonder
    Emerald Buddha Temple (Civil Liberties, Buddhism): no unhappiness in city
    Shalimar Gardens (Horticulture, Islam): excess health counts as happiness
    Hermitage (Sociology): +10% science per culture level, technologies cost 25% less in trade and espionage
    Salt Cathedral (Geology): +2 commerce per state religion building
    Bell Rock Lighthouse (Metallurgy): +1 trade route in coastal cities
    Crystal Palace (Electricity): +25% commerce with power
    Tsukiji Fish Market (Refigeration, Rice): +1 food on water tiles
    Brooklyn Bridge (Labour Unions): free Levee in every city, +2 free engineers
    Neuschwanstein Castle (Journalism): settling a great person restores 50% great people points
    Golden Gate Bridge (Infrastructure): +1 commerce from Engineer, Scientist
    Bletchley Park (Radio): +50% spy detection chance, +50% chance to avoid spy detection
    Sagrada Familia (Macroeconomics): +1 production from Artist, +25% production converted into commerce
    The Motherland Calls (Power Projection, Central Planning): drafts a new unit every time you lose a unit of level 3 or higher
    Berlaymont (Globalism, Multilateralism): +2 possible defensive pacts, +1 free specialist per defensive pact
    World Trade Center (Globalism, Free Enterprise): +50% corporation commerce
    Atomium (Nuclear Power): +1 science per ICBM built in the world
    Iron Dome (Laser): +50% intercept chance in own territory
    Harbour Opera (Tourism): +1 food per excess happiness
    Gardens by the Bay (Ecology): +1 commerce per excess health
    Burj Khalifa (Aerodynamics): +2 food +2 commerce on desert tiles
    Hubble Space Telescope (Satellites): +100% science
    Channel Tunnel (Robotics): +100% trade route yield with friendly relations
    Oriental Pearl Tower (Telecommunications): +1 science per city population
    Delta Works (Renewable Energy, only flat land in city radius): +1 food +1 production +1 commerce on water tiles
    ITER (Fusion): clean power for all cities on the continent, +1 commerce per power consumed in all cities
    Large Hadron Collider (Superconductors): +100% science


    Affected existing wonders:
    Spoiler :
    Shwedagon Paya: double production for state religion buildings
    Khajuraho: +1 food per state religion building
    Himeji Castle: requires Feudalism
    Leaning Tower: removed
    University of Sankore: +1 commerce on desert tiles
    Notre Dame: only two Temples required to build Cathedrals
    San Marco Basilica: +1 gold per specialist
    Porcelain Tower: +1 food from Statesman
    Versailles: free Estate in every city, +2 free Statesmen
    Saint Basil's Cathedral: +25% defense in all cities, +1 movement for civilian units
    Blue Mosque: temporary unhappiness is limited to 1


    You can see an overview over all existing wonders, their tech column, religion and civilisation distribution in this document. Another sheet keeping track of proposed/considered wonders that have not been included yet (and may not be) can be found here.

    Further notes:
    - Many more exotic wonder effects are not implemented yet (marked as "not implemented")
    - The main purpose of this first stab is to get feedback on wonder art, proposed effects and position in the tech tree
    - as you can see wonders are clustered in some columns and on particular techs, and some columns and techs are particularly lacking in wonders. Part of the purpose of adding new wonders is to add utility to techs with few effects, which wasn't always successful. Suggestions for wonders that require these techs (or moving existing wonders to them) are welcome.
    - Likewise, in particular the Industrial era is a bit lacking in wonders, suggestions welcome
    - I want to also tackle Projects with this branch, but haven't yet

    Close candidates for inclusion that have not made it yet, open for discussion:
    Spoiler :
    - Aqua Appia
    - Al Khazneh / Petra
    - Palatine Chapel
    - Alamut Fortress
    - Mount Athos
    - Venetian Arsenal
    - Amber Room
    - The Biosphere
    - Global Seed Vault


    The Suez and Panama Canals are also good wonder candidates but somewhat of a special case because they are tied to specific tiles on the map. I am not sure how to represent them the best way, and may wait until the larger map is included before I can include them.

    Mostly for fun, locations of all wonders in the game on the proposed larger world map:
    Spoiler :
    Civ4ScreenShot0383.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0384.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0385.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0386.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0387.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0388.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0389.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0382.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0381.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0380.JPG



    There is only one five wonder city on the map (New York), and three four wonder cities (Paris, London and Constantinople).


    All kind of suggestions for additional wonders and critique on the existing state of the branch welcome. I encourage you to check out the branch and review the art and the position of the wonders in the tech tree as well. A proposal becomes even more valuable if it includes a suggested effect, art and tech requirement.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  2. Leoreth

    Leoreth Fluffy Boy Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    31,587
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dark World
    Reserved.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. TJDowling

    TJDowling Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    305
    Awesome! The Motherland Calls effect is cool. I guess the Florence Cathedral is taking the Leaning Tower's place? Also, I like the addition of modern Asian wonders such as the Pearl Tower and Gardens By the Bay. I went to the latter a couple years back and it's quite impressive.

    Also, I know I made this suggestion in the Completely Dumb Ideas Thread before but seriously, can we do this for the digital era? Pls!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recycling_and_Northern_Development_Canal
     
    Leoreth likes this.
  4. Publicola

    Publicola Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    384
    Awesome.

    Any reason you decided to name it 'Monolithic Church' rather than 'Bete Giyorgis' after the most famous stone church in the complex?

    This strikes me as way too powerful -- that would give +50% :gold: in every one of your cities on the map, plus Great Merchant points. Would it be possible to implement a "double production for banks and stock markets' or something similar, so it's powerful but still requires effort to get the full benefit?

    Any reason you're not calling it the 'Naqsh-e Jahan Square' or 'Meidan Emam'?

    Ditto for this one -- way too powerful than I'd be comfortable with. Levees are a massive late-game boost to most cities' productivity; they're usually quite expensive as well, so giving them for free is a massive bonus. I'd prefer something more like 'double production for Levees in all cities' (perhaps removing the prereq that cities require a river?). Perhaps the effect could be expanded to apply to mass transit/superhighways as well.

    I love this effect. Just wanted to say that.

    As for suggestions:
    I dislike Civ V/VI for using the Petra wonder to turn desert cities into super-cities. I'd really prefer the effects be limited to a single tile (a desert oasis), but to make that one tile awesome. Something like auto-place a town on a desert oasis, +1 :food:, +1 :hammers:, maybe a free trade route for the city. Or perhaps a general effect, like +1 trade route with camel resources.

    Given the overlap with politics (it was part of Charlemagne's Palace) and religion (it is part of Aachen Cathedral), there are a lot of potential effects here. Perhaps a combination effect: serves as a free palace plus all palaces receive benefits as though they were cathedrals?

    Speaking of medieval religious wonders... any plans for a Cluny Abbey?

    I think I included this in my wonder mega-list, with the suggest effect of providing lots of free XP for spies built in the city, or a bunch of free promotions. Alternately, give less XP (or fewer promotions) but for spies built in all cities you own.

    Perhaps a cumulative bonus for every monastery of your state religion? (+1 culture per Orthodox monastery?) You might add other effects like +1 science or +1 happiness for every four monasteries.

    Either bonus for building ships (especially gunpowder ships), or a bunch of free XP for all ships built in that city, or a bunch of free promotions. Alternately, like Alamut, less XP or fewer promotions but for every city owned.

    Looks like the real-world Amber Room was a cultural milestone with major ties to diplomacy of the period. Perhaps we could find an effect that ties to diplomacy: bonus culture (amount or percent) for every 'friendly' relation, or per alliance/defensive pact? Or perhaps something to make alliances and defensive pacts much easier to negotiate?

    Not really a fan of this wonder, given it was a failure in its stated purpose (to pave the way for closed systems re: space colonization), but we could certainly use it like the existing Space Elevator, where it gives bonuses for certain Alpha Centauri mission ship parts. Alternately, if you plan on expanding the 'space race' to allow for moon landing --> mars landing --> moon colonization --> mars colonization --> Alpha Centauri, then this wonder would have a lot more usefulness.

    Bonus food or health or science for every food-related wonder owned by player. (Or, owned by player and any other friendly civ).


    Looks great so far; thanks for your work on this!
     
    canexpthat and Cosmos1985 like this.
  5. Jarlaxe Baenre

    Jarlaxe Baenre Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,875
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Perhaps the Global Seed Vault could be a team project that allows workers to plant forests?
     
    TJDowling likes this.
  6. TJDowling

    TJDowling Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    305
    I always thought it should be possible to reforest, though the global seed vault seems to be more related to agriculture than forestry.
     
    BasilBerylium and Jarlaxe Baenre like this.
  7. Jarlaxe Baenre

    Jarlaxe Baenre Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,875
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Fair point. Saw it and floated an idea that I've liked for a while.

    Perhaps a wonder that gives +2 commerce to farms?
     
    TJDowling likes this.
  8. TJDowling

    TJDowling Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    305
    Are you interested in adding wonders that fill the gaps of civilizations that have no wonders? I'm sure Mexico, Colombia, Argentina and Turkey have some kind of wonderful landmarks. Not sure about Vikings and Congo.
     
  9. Steb

    Steb Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    603
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Montréal
    Very nice!
    • I've said this elsewhere, but Nalanda is literally a Buddhist monastery, so it should definitely require Buddhism in the city.
    • What is the Salt Cathedral? Wikipedia points to the Salt Cathedral of Zipaquirá in Colombia, but your map suggests it refers to the Wieliczka Salt Mine in Poland. I guess you mean the latter, but it's not a cathedral.
    • Atomium seems weak, my feeling is that the AI builds very few ICBMs? It uses a lot of nuclear bombers though.
    • Is it intended that there are two late game wonders with the same +100% science effect? Feels a bit boring.
    The "close candidates" I would like to see most are Petra, the Amber Room, and the Global Seed Vault. Of the ones in the previous thread that you don't seem to have retained, I really liked Akihabara. I'll look at everything in game some time this week.
     
  10. Lokki242

    Lokki242 That One Guy

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2011
    Messages:
    984
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Are there no wonders in Central Asia (i.e. for the Turks)?
     
  11. borhap88

    borhap88 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    525
    Location:
    Italy
    Aqua Appia: health resources with a Roman Road count as double OR acqueduct gives +1 health

    I would also like to propose a wonder for Industrial Era:
    Mole Antonelliana (Engine): +10% production per peak in city radius.
    (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_Antonelliana). It's the tallest unreinforced brick building in the world and a symbol of the House of Savoy who unified Italy. One of the problems of Italian Peninsula is the lack of power resources (coal, oil or uranium) that make it weak in late game. From Risorgimento, Northern Italy has become the most productive area (e.g. today Lombardy is the 2nd European region in terms of GDP). The only peculiar feature in Italian map are peaks, in number of 6 in the new larger map, representing Alps; their hydric basin represented the main way to provide electric power from the 2nd half of 19th century to 50s. I think that a late boost for this territory could be given by a Great Wonder such like this.
     
    trevor likes this.
  12. Leoreth

    Leoreth Fluffy Boy Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    31,587
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dark World
    Yes, Santa Maria del Fiore is essentially a reskin of the Leaning Tower. If you have more modern (Asian) wonders in mind please suggest them. Late Global and Digital era techs could still use more wonders.

    Don't know how I feel about aborted planned projects. I am willing to include planned/speculative projects (and have done so with ITER, and there's the Space Elevator obviously) but that's a bit different.

    I know I'm not being entirely consistent with that, but in general I prefer English language names if available. For lesser known wonders it makes it easier to form some sort of understanding of the wonder, I think.

    Banks only give +25% gold. Overall I like free building effects, which are underused right now in my opinion. They are powerful, but their utility is also limited because they provide no bonus not available to anyone else, only immediately while saving production. I see your point about the combination with free specialists, especially for Brooklyn Bridge. If more Industrial wonders are proposed they could easily be split.

    Yeah, I like effects that modify an existing game rule more than those who just provide a bonus. I felt like settling is the weaker choice for GPs late in the game, so this makes it a bit more appealing. And it interacts with the German UP.

    (Just for context, I had ideas for all these extra wonders already, I'm mainly not sure if they would be too much to add as well.)

    Yeah, or just flat +1 trade route. The wonder could require an Oasis instead.

    My thought was to make it cheap and allow you to defy the Apostolic Palace without penalties (representing the conflict between the Holy Roman Emperor and the Pope).

    Oh, good point. I don't have an idea for its effect, but I don't really want it to be a science bonus.

    Yeah, a flat +10 XP in the city for spies would work well.

    Seems kinda weak, and I would like to avoid wonder effects that buff other buildings.

    My idea was +1 production for every ship built.

    Right, I'd also like to go in the defensive pact direction. But I don't want only effects that influence AI behaviour, there should also be some other material benefit.

    Yes. Right now the main problem is the lack of appealing art. It's true that all current project were failures but you could easily move the wonder to slight "future" technology like ITER (for example, Biotechnology) to account for that.

    I have also thought about the space race in context of the wonder changes, and a couple of late game wonders could interact with it (i.e. Biosphere, Hubble, I left out the ISS for that reason at the moment). I think I will be going with a more tiered approach like Man in Space, Moon Landing, Mars Landing, and then Mars Colony as final goal. It's more realistic in the timeframe of the mod and with the available technologies, and it should be possible to reframe all spaceship parts as colony modules. This could be accompanied by a couple of optional wonders or projects like Hubble, Biosphere, ISS, Moon Base, or exploration missions for the rest of the solar system, which either speed up other space projects or provide benefits depending on how far along these are. I'm also thinking about the ability to launch generic satellites for espionage, science or commerce. But all of that is a bit too involved to be part of the wonder expansion branch.

    Wonder or resource?

    Yeah, I would love this ability but it doesn't seem it's the right wonder for that.

    I would love to if there is a legitimate wonder. Having at least one wonder per civilisation is not the goal and I don't want to force it.

    A Swedish period "Viking" wonder would be great though, because it would also add another Protestant wonder. Preferably military oriented.

    - True about Nalanda, I even read that when I was looking up its precise location on the map. Hindu state religion + Buddhism in the city then?
    - To quote Wikipedia: "The Wieliczka mine is often referred to as "the Underground Salt Cathedral of Poland". In 1978 it was placed on the original UNESCO list of the World Heritage Sites.[6] Even the crystals of the chandeliers are made from rock salt that has been dissolved and reconstituted to achieve a clear, glass-like appearance. It also houses a private rehabilitation and wellness complex."
    - Sure, I can rephrase it to include all nuclear weapons. Will be easier to implement anyway.
    - I want to make both of them more interesting through interaction with international projects (LHC) or space projects (Hubble), so the current effects are mostly stop gaps until those are in place.

    There's the Salsal Buddha (Bamyan), but it wasn't built by the Turks. Otherwise no, something for Samarkand maybe? I think the Timurid UP from SoI would make for an appropriate effect.

    Good idea, I'm in favour of Industrial wonders of any kind. Do you know if there's appropriate art for it?
     
  13. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,276
    Location:
    The city of the original vlaai
    Some suggestions about the artwork:

    - It would be nice if the Channel Tunnel has some railroads leading into the tunnel and the inside of the tunnel is a black hole instead of the current levee wall.
    - Dujiangyna - The wall part of the levee looks very modern. I think it would look nice if the wall would be reskinned to a dirt/stone wall and the posts become wooden posts or something.
    - Realism Invictus has very nice art for the Wat Preah Pisnulok (Angkor Wat in RI)
    - The current Angkor Wat can be used for the Prambanan after a reskin.
    - There is a good model for the Great Cothon. (Screenshot)
    - Although not completely accurate, the Harmandir Sahib could have the art of the second screenshot (Arthashastra) after a reskin.
    - Khajuraho could have the art of the 3rd screenshot (Nalanda)

    I think I'm able to do the reskinning/adding railroads.

    Suggestion for Mount Athos: Monasteries don't become obsolete.
    EDIT: Cluny Abbey could also have this effect.

    The Ulug Beg Observatory could be a Turkic Wonder.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    hnrysml likes this.
  14. Leoreth

    Leoreth Fluffy Boy Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    31,587
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dark World
    The problem with Ulugh Beg's Observatory is that it fits the <Great Person>'s X pattern, which is not the kind of wonder I want to include. Because that's what Great People themselves are used for. Also it was destroyed very shortly after. I like the suggestion for monasteries not to expire, but it's kind of strange to give the effect to a medieval wonder because it would mean it has no effect until later in the game.

    Thanks for all the art suggestions, I will try them soon. I also have some other graphical improvements planned. The Dujiangyan art is not even reskinned but only pallette shifted from the default levee art, so the structure does not really look like wood. If you want to try improving any existing wonder art it is very welcome.
     
  15. borhap88

    borhap88 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    525
    Location:
    Italy
    No idea, I'm sorry :(
     
  16. TJDowling

    TJDowling Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    305
    Spoiler :

    All Wonders.png

    This is what your capital should look like if you play the game perfectly. Noteworthy, my Golden Gate Bridge takes up the whole screen.
     
  17. Leoreth

    Leoreth Fluffy Boy Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    31,587
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dark World
    Haha, I didn't try most of them in the game yet. When I first added the Golden Gate Bridge it was so large that its civilopedia graphic was empty, took me a while to figure out what was wrong.
     
    1SDAN and trevor like this.
  18. Orbii

    Orbii Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    132
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Edmonton
    Another suggestion for Mount Athos: +25% defense for cities with only your state religion. Not tied to any historical significance of the wonder, but does help to model two things that are geographically (if not casually) connected: the importance of the Theme system in preventing major conquests in Anatolia, and the religious intolerance of Iconoclasm and Chalcedonian Orthodoxy in the region. Would also obsolete 'naturally' by the spread of Islam from the Turkic conquerors to reflect the collapse of the system, and would do nothing for Constantinople.

    Also, I would suggest that Gondeshapur obsolete at some point. +1 Food for scientists is incredibly strong. The parallel Indian wonder that gives +1 Food pet artist, and the current effect for Wat Preah Pisnolok(?) with +1 Food per priest apply to comparatively much weaker specialists, and at least Wat Preah also obsoletes.

    Lately, Kazimerz is not on any of the lists, but I think a reasonably fun effect for it would be +40% GPP in the city for every non-state religion. If built in the Polish capital with Judaism, Protestantism, and Orthodoxy, it would be slightly stronger than the Leaning Tower replacement, while tying in nicely with both the Polish religious diversity and UHV. Should definetely obsolete at some point though.
     
  19. Steb

    Steb Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    603
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Montréal
    The "monasteries don't expire" effect could be given to the Emerald Buddha Temple, since monasteries are still (I think) a big deal in Thailand, and it becomes available in the same time period as the expiration. The Potala Palace would also fit (but has a more interesting existing effect).
     
  20. Leoreth

    Leoreth Fluffy Boy Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    31,587
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dark World
    Interesting, but the defense effect is already an attribute of the Temple of Kukulkan and Saint Basil's Cathedral, except that this would also have a limitation.

    Of course. I haven't defined any obsoletion techs yet but most earlier will get them. It's just hard because I also want to spread the obsoletion techs evenly.

    Yeah, but I also think the Emerald Buddha Temple effect is very useful and appropriate. Honestly it could also be a secondary effect of either wonder.
     

Share This Page