[Feature] Additional Wonders

[Leoreth]

Kremlin, probably, is bad idea, can't think about it another than a strictly secular wonder.

I think of the Kremlin as the government of Russia. So I would say it is much more a civil wonder than a religious wonder. (I wouldn't even call it a religious wonder at all. But that can also be due to lack of knowledge)

Well same, but it contains a bunch of churches and was the seat of the Russian monarchy which was basically inseparable of the Orthodox church.

BTW, the current residence of the Russian Orthodox Patriarch is the Danilov Monastery, which is not inside the Kremlin. (Since 1983. I don't know about the residence before that)

I was going by the Church of the Twelve Apostles which is part of the Kremlin and the sedes of the Patriarch (similar to how the Lateran Basilica is the sedes of the Pope but people don't associate the papacy with it much).

Given this, I would link the transition of Orthodoxy to the St. Basil Cathedral. And give the Kremlin the civil bonus the St. Basil Cathedral currently has.

Yeah, I agree.

 

[Leoreth]

Merged a pull request by merijn_v1:
- updated Prambanan art
- added Old Synagogue art
- reduced size of Golden Gate bridge art

 

[Leoreth]

Leaving the Kremlin/SBC aside, here are my thoughts on effects for the wonders left to be added:

Old Synagogue (Commune): requires Judaism, +2 gold for Jewish religious buildings
Crystal Cathedral (Television): requires Protestantism, +1 commerce from Priests, +1 happiness per 25% gold rate in all cities
Skytree (Telecommunications): +1 production from Scientists, +1 food from Engineers

Not sure what the effect of Las Lajas Sanctuary should be.

 

[merijn_v1]

I vaguely remember that something like "shrine on a different continent" bonus was proposed. I'm trying to find the original suggestion, but I haven't found it yet.

EDIT: Never mind. It was the bonus that was given to the Guadelupe Basilica.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, so that is used already. It's hard to do religious effects because the number of vectors to do so (religious buildings, priests ...) is limited and mostly already used. I don't know if there's another aspect of it to represent.

Speaking of Latin American wonders, any ideas for Floralis Generica? There already is art.

 

[merijn_v1]

For Las Lajas Santuary. Based on the following:

According to popular belief, the Virgin Mary appeared to a woman and her deaf-mute daughter in 1754 at exactly the same place where the church is now standing.The woman, Maria Meneses de Quiñones, and her daughter, Rosa, were passing by the Guaitara river when they found themselves hiding from a storm. At that moment, Rosa shouted "Mum, the Virgin is calling me!" and pointed to the appearing virgin. The woman kept quiet about the miracle until something even more incredible happened. When Rosa died, Mueces returned to the place where they had seen Virgin Mary to pray for her daughter's soul. The virgin then miraculously revived Rosa, and mother and daughter could no longer keep the miracle a secret. The first shrine in the honor of Jesus's mother was built a few years after the alleged appearance, according to the journal of a friar who was traveling the region between 1756 and 1764. Half a century later, in 1802, a bigger shrine was built and worshipers erected the first version of the bridge that now allows access to the church.
...
This apparition of the Virgin Mary instigated popular pilgrimage to the site and occasional reports of cases of miraculous healing.

What about:
Heals units extra 10% damage/turn in all cities (with state religion)

It is basically the effect a hospital has.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, that's a good idea.

 

[Steb]

Since you guys are on a roll, and since art seems to be less limiting than before, can I request some consideration for Château Frontenac? I made the following suggestion early in the thread:

The Château Frontenac in Quebec City. Effect: faster railroad construction, free railway station in all cities connected by rail. (Represents the Grand Railway Hotels built across Canada in the late 19th c.) Tech: Railroad or Refining.

(I am totally biased in this case but I do think it'd be a good addition)

 

[ozqar]

Yeah... speaking of biases, may I propose these:
Mexico City's Chapultepec Castle, which is the only royal castle in the Americas. It served as military academy and as a castle/fortress (during the Mexican-American war), later as an imperial / presidential palace. It could provide extra experience to military units and increase stability (or provide great statesmen); I wouldn't go for a defense bonus since Mexico City is not particularly in a region that is attacked that much.

Recently there was an idea about having additional Mesoamerican wonders because "those civs were famous for that". I think makes a lot of sense, it's similar to the high number of wonders in the classical mediterranean. I'd propose these, to have one additional each for Mayas and Aztecs:
- Tenochtitlan's Templo Mayor (art is available, but can't find it). This was the main temple in Tenochtitlan and it was a double temple dedicated to Huitzilopochtli (god of war) and Tlaloc (god of rain). It'd be cool if it linked the sacrifices (which already give happiness as per the Aztec UP) with these two gods, granting, e.g., X food to the city and X XP points to units in the tile.
For the Mayas, I'm undecided, but these are some nice options - I'm not entirely sure on their effect, though. I've been to Palenque and Bonampak and both of those are amazing.
- Tikal's Temple of the Great Juaguar (Tikal's Temple I, but with it's cooler alternative name),
- Palenque's Temple of the Inscriptions - art here
- Uxmal's Temple of the Magician (and I admit that the name was a big factor) - art here
- Bonampak's Temple of the Murals

Without my national bias, I realize there are no late-game muslim wonders, while the Middle East - North Africa continues being a very religious area (as opposed to Europe, eg). I'd propose Dubai's Sheikh Zayed Grand Mosque, it's strikingly beautiful or Casablanca's Hassan II's mosque. And speaking of the moors, art for the Alhambra is available, maybe that can also be included. Mashhad's Imam Reza Shrine (art here) is the largest mosque in the world and I think it would be the only shia wonder in the game, so that would be nice to have too.

I also found art for a stave church, which maybe can represent Heddal (the largest one) or Borgund (super beautiful). Currently there are no Viking wonders (the global seed vault only, but that doesn't really count as Viking, right?). The churches are not pagan Viking buildings, obviously, but Scandinavian Christianization happened between the 8th and 12th centuries (Heddal is from the 13th century and Borgund from the 12th), and the Viking UHV timeline goes to 1500, so the player could definitely include them in their game.

And one observation, in the spreadsheet you marked several wonders with unexpected religion choices. For example, the Lotus Temple, the Palace of the Nations, and the Global Seed Vault are marked as protestant wonders, and the Guadalupe Basilica and Mole Antonelliana are marked as orthodox. I assume I shouldn't pay much attention to these right? For the Lotus Temple, btw, it would be cool if it required having three or more religions in the city.

 

[merijn_v1]

Since you guys are on a roll, and since art seems to be less limiting than before, can I request some consideration for Château Frontenac? I made the following suggestion early in the thread:

(I am totally biased in this case but I do think it'd be a good addition)

That is a really impressive building. I am considering to create a model for it for the database, regardless of it being added to DoC or not. (Although I have some other buildings I want to create first)

Without my national bias, I realize there are no late-game muslim wonders, while the Middle East - North Africa continues being a very religious area (as opposed to Europe, eg). I'd propose Dubai's Sheikh Zayed Grand Mosque, it's strikingly beautiful or Casablanca's Hassan II's mosque. And speaking of the moors, art for the Alhambra is available, maybe that can also be included. Mashhad's Imam Reza Shrine (art here) is the largest mosque in the world and I think it would be the only shia wonder in the game, so that would be nice to have too.

The Alhambra is already in the Mod. And the Imam Reza Mosque art is used for the Image of the World Square.

 

[Leoreth]

I'm still skeptical of more Amerindian wonders for Mesoamerica, we only have two civs there and unlike the Mediterranean civs there isn't that much space in their game timeline to build that many wonders, especially the Aztecs. Also, like I said before I'd rather come up with a new more appropriate effect for the Temple of Kukulkan first before thinking about effects for even more wonders.

I know the point that the Maya should spawn earlier has been raised before and I plan to address it, and the larger map may also provide more space for wonders. I think it is better to revisit that period when this is the case.

I like the idea around Chateau Frontenac by the way.

 

[Lokki242]

Chalputepec Castle would be cool though... plus it's for New Spain/Mexico and not for the Aztecs. I like the suggestion for it.

 

[Leoreth]

Oh yeah, I forgot to address it. Not opposed but I'd need a compelling combination of effect and art.

 

[ozqar]

The Alhambra is already in the Mod.

Uhm, maybe there's something wrong with my game then? I just launched it, just to check this, and I couldn't find the Alhambra in the civilopedia list

 

[merijn_v1]

You are right. I got confused by the art. La Mezquita has the art that used to be the Alhambra.

Leoreth, why is this the case? There is art for La Mezquita available. (It is even already in the art folder of the mod) Is it because the Alhambra art is aesthetically more appealing?

If both La Mezquita and the Alhambra is too much representation of Moorish architecture, I would rename La Mezquita to Alhambra (and keep the current art). I think that the Alhambra is more famous.

 

[Leoreth]

You are right. I got confused by the art. La Mezquita has the art that used to be the Alhambra.

Leoreth, why is this the case? There is art for La Mezquita available. (It is even already in the art folder of the mod) Is it because the Alhambra art is aesthetically more appealing?

Yes. The La Mezquita art is also overly complex.

 

[Leoreth]

Merged a pull request by merijn_v1: improved Metropolitain art.

 

[Leoreth]

New update:
- added Old Synagogue, Las Lajas Sanctuary, Crystal Cathedral, Skytree
- worker actions take up less space in the tech tree

 

[Leoreth]

Merged a pull request by merijn_v1: new Saint Thomas Church

 

[Temujin8k]

There's a bug with the Hermitage. If you steal a tech from another civ via espionage, the dialog box shows all 141 techs, with only the actually possible ones showing correct costs; the rest are shown at zero cost. And if you click one of those zero-cost techs you actually get them. So I can like, get a Digital Era tech at no cost in the late 1700's even when you still just entered the Industrial Era.

To reproduce, there must be an eligible tech to steal from another civ, as that's the only way to make the Steal Technology available. Espionage points can be WB-ed so it's not much of a trouble.