You can either talk with me in here through private messages or at the English Wikipedia. Regards!
Federative Republic of Brazil
- Thread starter Emerald_Knight
- Start date
You can either talk with me in here through private messages or at the English Wikipedia. Regards!
van der Knivet
Chieftain
well well
I'm Brazilian too, and a Social Science student... so I'll put my word.
Possible LeaderHeads:
Pedro II - all reasons were putted here. no reason to speak more.
Getúlio Vargas - he industrialized Brazil, and almost invented Brazil. until he, this nation was a mere amalgament of minor sates that stood in civil and independance wars (farroupilha, baianada, ecuador confederation, contestado, cisplatina - uruguay was the only brazilian province that achieved independence -, cabanagem, guanais federation and so on). he, with his "Estado Novo" labor policies and fascism-like propaganda, created the idea of a brazilian nation-state, harmonic and homogeneic.
Juscelino Kubitschek - a president of the middle-XX century, organizer of the brazilian democracy, establisher of the rampant industrialization and creator of the city of Brasilia, atual capital of the country. but I personally tink that he is smaller that the other ones.
Lula - maybe because he is so contemporanean, a lot of people would disagree with this choice. but, political disagreements beside, he was one of the best presidents that our country ever seen, like this or not. he herited one crashed country and leaves, after 8 years of rule, a mighty nation that can be one of the great powers of the world. for the first time in all history our leader is world-wide lauded by the other leaders as one of the most influent on internation politics. for the first time in our history we have a large leadership rule on all latin-american affairs, and are often consulted on every world-wide affair. it's a proud to have a president like he, after all.
(notice that I have enormous politic disagreements with him)
possible unique units
bandeirantes - it was speaked by ones as a good idea of a brazilian UU, I disagree. if you asked a bandeirante if he was brazilian he would reply "no, I'm Paulista". after all, he wouldn't even know what "brazilian" is. he is representative only of the Kingdom of São Paulo (yes, they tried independance, right after the Iberian Union, and before the Emboabas's War), that was, at the time, more like a guarani city. if was to place him as UU, why not the gaucho, or the cangaceiro?
Voluntários da Pátria (i always prefeer the native name than the englished form, in all civs) - a good idea. a cheaper musketman, only that. they were, majoritarily, black people serving as volunteers in exchange of their freedom from slavery. unorganized troops on the time that the brazilian army simply didn't exist. they were the seed of the posterior creation of a real brazilian army. but they won a war, that counts. maybe a weaker musketeer that doesn't have maintance cost. it would be historical accurate, but I don't know if it will be balanced.
Dragões da Independência - it's a legend, and i know nothing about them.
Pracinhas - ridiculous soldiers that died on WWII only to win a hill (that was all they did in europe).
Tucano - the brazilian fighter. pretty good. alas, all the embraero fighters are of the best. pick one at your choice.
possible unique buildings
Estádio de Futebol - unfortunately, the soccer played important role on the creation of the idea of Brazil. if today it is a stereotype about our country, is 'couse it was on that sport that Brazil was created. "Brazil, love it or leave it", the phrase and a image of Pelé - that was the propaganda, always was, since the beggining.
Igreja Universal - a temple that gives money
Sambódromo - hapiness, hapiness, hapiness (meh)
Favela - replaces bank. litteraly. (that was a joke, forget it)
possible traits
sincerely, I don't like the idea of trait of civilization. I would prefeer the trait linked to a leader, like it was on civ4. but, let's go:
the Carnaval Fever idea was pretty cool. it fits with major sociological interpretations of our culture, like DaMata's "Carnavais, Malandros e Heróis". i would use this one.
other idea would be, on the same line as Carnaval Fever, but different: the carnaval gives hapiness, not culture. it would explain the big country that Brazil is, with the litlle social trouble (meaning the social unhapiness trouble like is put in civ5). witch means that brazilian civ would be a larger and happier empire, that is cool.
:::
btw... I would like do some mods of the brazilian civil wars, like Cabanada, Farroupilha and Emboabas. the forgotten history of our country.
I'm Brazilian too, and a Social Science student... so I'll put my word.
Possible LeaderHeads:
Pedro II - all reasons were putted here. no reason to speak more.
Getúlio Vargas - he industrialized Brazil, and almost invented Brazil. until he, this nation was a mere amalgament of minor sates that stood in civil and independance wars (farroupilha, baianada, ecuador confederation, contestado, cisplatina - uruguay was the only brazilian province that achieved independence -, cabanagem, guanais federation and so on). he, with his "Estado Novo" labor policies and fascism-like propaganda, created the idea of a brazilian nation-state, harmonic and homogeneic.
Juscelino Kubitschek - a president of the middle-XX century, organizer of the brazilian democracy, establisher of the rampant industrialization and creator of the city of Brasilia, atual capital of the country. but I personally tink that he is smaller that the other ones.
Lula - maybe because he is so contemporanean, a lot of people would disagree with this choice. but, political disagreements beside, he was one of the best presidents that our country ever seen, like this or not. he herited one crashed country and leaves, after 8 years of rule, a mighty nation that can be one of the great powers of the world. for the first time in all history our leader is world-wide lauded by the other leaders as one of the most influent on internation politics. for the first time in our history we have a large leadership rule on all latin-american affairs, and are often consulted on every world-wide affair. it's a proud to have a president like he, after all.
(notice that I have enormous politic disagreements with him)
possible unique units
bandeirantes - it was speaked by ones as a good idea of a brazilian UU, I disagree. if you asked a bandeirante if he was brazilian he would reply "no, I'm Paulista". after all, he wouldn't even know what "brazilian" is. he is representative only of the Kingdom of São Paulo (yes, they tried independance, right after the Iberian Union, and before the Emboabas's War), that was, at the time, more like a guarani city. if was to place him as UU, why not the gaucho, or the cangaceiro?
Voluntários da Pátria (i always prefeer the native name than the englished form, in all civs) - a good idea. a cheaper musketman, only that. they were, majoritarily, black people serving as volunteers in exchange of their freedom from slavery. unorganized troops on the time that the brazilian army simply didn't exist. they were the seed of the posterior creation of a real brazilian army. but they won a war, that counts. maybe a weaker musketeer that doesn't have maintance cost. it would be historical accurate, but I don't know if it will be balanced.
Dragões da Independência - it's a legend, and i know nothing about them.
Pracinhas - ridiculous soldiers that died on WWII only to win a hill (that was all they did in europe).
Tucano - the brazilian fighter. pretty good. alas, all the embraero fighters are of the best. pick one at your choice.
possible unique buildings
Estádio de Futebol - unfortunately, the soccer played important role on the creation of the idea of Brazil. if today it is a stereotype about our country, is 'couse it was on that sport that Brazil was created. "Brazil, love it or leave it", the phrase and a image of Pelé - that was the propaganda, always was, since the beggining.
Igreja Universal - a temple that gives money
Sambódromo - hapiness, hapiness, hapiness (meh)
Favela - replaces bank. litteraly. (that was a joke, forget it)
possible traits
sincerely, I don't like the idea of trait of civilization. I would prefeer the trait linked to a leader, like it was on civ4. but, let's go:
the Carnaval Fever idea was pretty cool. it fits with major sociological interpretations of our culture, like DaMata's "Carnavais, Malandros e Heróis". i would use this one.
other idea would be, on the same line as Carnaval Fever, but different: the carnaval gives hapiness, not culture. it would explain the big country that Brazil is, with the litlle social trouble (meaning the social unhapiness trouble like is put in civ5). witch means that brazilian civ would be a larger and happier empire, that is cool.
:::
btw... I would like do some mods of the brazilian civil wars, like Cabanada, Farroupilha and Emboabas. the forgotten history of our country.
labrynianrebel
Warlord
Arlborn
Legendary Noob
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2006
- Messages
- 1,939
I liked this analysis, even if it is a bit biased perhaps.
Gusss
Chieftain
Maybe a touristic trait? Extra culture and cash from coastal cityes or wonders? 
Or maybe cash from population would be great, maybe 1gp for every 2 citizens, i think this would be very realistic... hehe
As unique building could be the tv station replacing the broadcast tower, generating extra cash. Or maybe some super fission power planta, as brazilian uranium enrichment is one of the worlds finest.
And as unique unit it could be some sort of medic, as great part of brazilians intervention on foreign countryes were just "diplomatic help", as was on Haiti and Angola.
Or maybe cash from population would be great, maybe 1gp for every 2 citizens, i think this would be very realistic... hehe
As unique building could be the tv station replacing the broadcast tower, generating extra cash. Or maybe some super fission power planta, as brazilian uranium enrichment is one of the worlds finest.
And as unique unit it could be some sort of medic, as great part of brazilians intervention on foreign countryes were just "diplomatic help", as was on Haiti and Angola.
fabvas
Chieftain
Dears, I am also a Brazilian Civ player and I must say that I really like this mod from Emerald_Knight. The pictures are very good, specially the round symbol with our flag's blue circle. Also, the choice for president Kubitschek is a lot better than Dom Pedro I. Besides Kubitschet, another good option could be Getúlio Vargas (Lula will be a good one, but is too contemporany, as van der Knivet said).
Regarding UB, I'll have to disgree from my compatriots. I really think that "Estádio de Futebol" (Soccer Stadium, in portuguese) is a very good UB for my country. It is really true that Brazilians do not like to be remembered just by stereotypes such as sooccer, beautiful naked women, Carnival or soo on. Indeed, all countries have their stereotypes and nobody likes them. But it does not mean that stereotypes never have a strong link with reality. In other words: Brazil is not just the soccer country, it is much more. But is also the soccer country. It is not a shame to be culturally linked to soccer and one can find numerous antropological and sociological studies telling how soccer was and is really important in our culture, integration and socibility. Just as other sports or group practices were in other countries.
I ask you: egyptinas should feel good being represented with the UB "Burial Tomb"? Actually, the many countries that have religious UB are stereotyped. And the worst are: Russia's Krepost and Arabia's Bazaar!!!
Well, in Brazil we have at least small and poor stadiums in every city of the country... so it looks like an UB 
Of course, I am not arguing that it is the only UB possible, or even the better. Just that it is a very good one. But a true point is that it has to be named like "Soccer Stadium" or "Estadio de Futebol", in portuguese. "Maracanã stadium" does not make any sense, as Maracanã is the name of one of our stadiums. Oh, and I totaly think that this mode should use Semprini's screen image for the stadium, as he is allowing. It is really really great!
In what regards the UU, I totally prefer Fatherland Volunteer Corps suggested by Tabris and van der Knivet. It would be very nice to have then in the fields as a kind of cheap musketman. Perfect! Also, They were much more important to our history. But if you keep Expeditionary Force, I agree with Tabris again and don't think it would be bad: just name it "Pracinhas". Actually, personally I think that the most important UU for Brazil would be "Bandeirantes". They were by far the most important responsible for Brazil having the 5th biggest territory in the World. But kind of agree with the objections made by van der Knivet.
Finally, regarding the Trait for Brazil, I think both suggestions here could make sense: the original from the mod and that other about food and farming. For now, as Emerald_Knight well remembered that we have small flexibility to change Traits, I think the mod's original one is good. The only thing that I did not like was the "+1 cultural point in each city" being an absolute amount and not a realtive amount. Notice that in later game, having +1 cultura point is almost nothing. So, I'd like it better if the trait increased the city culture points by a %.
That said, I congrat Emerald_Knight for the very professional job. It is a relief to find a good Brazilian mod again!
Regarding UB, I'll have to disgree from my compatriots. I really think that "Estádio de Futebol" (Soccer Stadium, in portuguese) is a very good UB for my country. It is really true that Brazilians do not like to be remembered just by stereotypes such as sooccer, beautiful naked women, Carnival or soo on. Indeed, all countries have their stereotypes and nobody likes them. But it does not mean that stereotypes never have a strong link with reality. In other words: Brazil is not just the soccer country, it is much more. But is also the soccer country. It is not a shame to be culturally linked to soccer and one can find numerous antropological and sociological studies telling how soccer was and is really important in our culture, integration and socibility. Just as other sports or group practices were in other countries.
I ask you: egyptinas should feel good being represented with the UB "Burial Tomb"? Actually, the many countries that have religious UB are stereotyped. And the worst are: Russia's Krepost and Arabia's Bazaar!!!
Well, in Brazil we have at least small and poor stadiums in every city of the country... so it looks like an UB Of course, I am not arguing that it is the only UB possible, or even the better. Just that it is a very good one. But a true point is that it has to be named like "Soccer Stadium" or "Estadio de Futebol", in portuguese. "Maracanã stadium" does not make any sense, as Maracanã is the name of one of our stadiums. Oh, and I totaly think that this mode should use Semprini's screen image for the stadium, as he is allowing. It is really really great!In what regards the UU, I totally prefer Fatherland Volunteer Corps suggested by Tabris and van der Knivet. It would be very nice to have then in the fields as a kind of cheap musketman. Perfect! Also, They were much more important to our history. But if you keep Expeditionary Force, I agree with Tabris again and don't think it would be bad: just name it "Pracinhas". Actually, personally I think that the most important UU for Brazil would be "Bandeirantes". They were by far the most important responsible for Brazil having the 5th biggest territory in the World. But kind of agree with the objections made by van der Knivet.
Finally, regarding the Trait for Brazil, I think both suggestions here could make sense: the original from the mod and that other about food and farming. For now, as Emerald_Knight well remembered that we have small flexibility to change Traits, I think the mod's original one is good. The only thing that I did not like was the "+1 cultural point in each city" being an absolute amount and not a realtive amount. Notice that in later game, having +1 cultura point is almost nothing. So, I'd like it better if the trait increased the city culture points by a %.
That said, I congrat Emerald_Knight for the very professional job. It is a relief to find a good Brazilian mod again!
fabvas
Chieftain
Guys, just one thing more: this Brazilian mod is not available for download anymore? I was not able to find it at the downloads section of Civfanatics.
Wirapuru
a happy dog
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2006
- Messages
- 122
Wow, every time I feel bad about the heavy cons about our country I remember the talented people we have the luck to have here and feel better. Not only Emerald's and Semprini's initiatives but those analysis were very coherent and accurate, nice discussion going on here =]
Anyways, I'm here because I did some 3D/2D mods in the past and always loved Civ games, even though I never did anything for them (apart some initial try on a D.Pedro II for Civ3 long time ago). When Civ 5 came I got very excited about all the modability hype so I thought this one I couldn't let pass by. The problem is that I was foolish enough to not go after someone who obviously (seeing how it went with Civ3 and 4) was 'architecting' A Brazil civ mod then I started modeling a new leader from my head, and that was (the young) Dom Pedro I =\
While reading this thread I saw I made a mistake, but liked very much the suggestions about Getulio but even more Lula (in my perspective the mod should to go for a more known person around the world and until Lula we really didn't have any - so most people could identify him/her and enjoy it more). I'm eager to add to and help your mods with 3D modeling, texturing and animation if you are interested --I would very like to participate on these promising projects
I did some progress on that Dom Pedro I model already:
but the bad news, in short words, is that Nexus tool won't create any playable new models yet (more info on this thread), a new texture for existing models at best (and in a not-ideal way).
But since a leader model is the most complex new custom art we can get I started working on some modeling until the SDK tools allow us to make them ingame. I'm excited by the idea of creating units, buildings and another models too but until now I hadn't any ideas for them, unitl reaching here I mean =P
Ok, apart the huge and bleh explanation text above I come humbly offer my will and skills to help you guys on your already very nice looking mod (I'm still to test ingame, don't play civ for sometime after a troubled week), I mean, if you want it
ps: after this thread, even though throwing d.pedro away is kinda harsh, I'm not restricted by this choice at all, I like the idea on modifying it or even starting another one from scratch, being him whichever is best for the mod.
Anyways, I'm here because I did some 3D/2D mods in the past and always loved Civ games, even though I never did anything for them (apart some initial try on a D.Pedro II for Civ3 long time ago). When Civ 5 came I got very excited about all the modability hype so I thought this one I couldn't let pass by. The problem is that I was foolish enough to not go after someone who obviously (seeing how it went with Civ3 and 4) was 'architecting' A Brazil civ mod then I started modeling a new leader from my head, and that was (the young) Dom Pedro I =\
While reading this thread I saw I made a mistake, but liked very much the suggestions about Getulio but even more Lula (in my perspective the mod should to go for a more known person around the world and until Lula we really didn't have any - so most people could identify him/her and enjoy it more). I'm eager to add to and help your mods with 3D modeling, texturing and animation if you are interested --I would very like to participate on these promising projects
I did some progress on that Dom Pedro I model already:
Spoiler :
but the bad news, in short words, is that Nexus tool won't create any playable new models yet (more info on this thread), a new texture for existing models at best (and in a not-ideal way).
But since a leader model is the most complex new custom art we can get I started working on some modeling until the SDK tools allow us to make them ingame. I'm excited by the idea of creating units, buildings and another models too but until now I hadn't any ideas for them, unitl reaching here I mean =P
Ok, apart the huge and bleh explanation text above I come humbly offer my will and skills to help you guys on your already very nice looking mod (I'm still to test ingame, don't play civ for sometime after a troubled week), I mean, if you want it
ps: after this thread, even though throwing d.pedro away is kinda harsh, I'm not restricted by this choice at all, I like the idea on modifying it or even starting another one from scratch, being him whichever is best for the mod.
Some of the comments made here are, at least, awkward.
Lack of knowledge is the one which surprises me the most.
Imperial Guard of Honor (Independence Dragoons) a myth?! They fought in Bahia during the War of Independence.
Vargas as a leader? A fascist dictator who tortured 20,000 people is the best leader you can find?
Lula is the first worldwide known Brazilian? In what planet do you people live? Dark Ages World or something similar?
When Pedro I died in 1834 he was regarded as an international hero of freedom. Did not know that? I am not surprised. Pedro II was regarded as a model of virtues and democracy in the USA, Europe and Latin America. Did not know that? Not surprised.
Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_II_of_Brazil
Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_and_fall_of_Pedro_II_of_Brazil
And here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_Pedro_II_of_Brazil
Reading is good. Trust me.
Lack of knowledge is the one which surprises me the most.
Imperial Guard of Honor (Independence Dragoons) a myth?! They fought in Bahia during the War of Independence.
Vargas as a leader? A fascist dictator who tortured 20,000 people is the best leader you can find?
Lula is the first worldwide known Brazilian? In what planet do you people live? Dark Ages World or something similar?
When Pedro I died in 1834 he was regarded as an international hero of freedom. Did not know that? I am not surprised. Pedro II was regarded as a model of virtues and democracy in the USA, Europe and Latin America. Did not know that? Not surprised.
Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_II_of_Brazil
Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_and_fall_of_Pedro_II_of_Brazil
And here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_Pedro_II_of_Brazil
Reading is good. Trust me.
Wirapuru
a happy dog
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2006
- Messages
- 122
Regardless the 'unfriendly' tone - I don't want to get involved - thanks for the links (and probably some content you helped to create there?). I was going to sleep at 9am when started to read like mad those wikipedia articles. I like to read geopolitics and history, but I confess my knowledge on D.Pedro II was a shame before going there - now I'm very proud of the emperor we had, what a brilliant and 'exquisite' mind that one..
//-----
But back on the artwork matters, I'm writing again more to ask everyone for ideas and choices for their preferred leader, units and buildings - and some references to them. I can see some favorites throughout the thread but if you can name it and give me any image or links with information about this and that would be excellent, so I can start creating the models for the time when Nexus is ready to make things ingame (which probably won't last too much). Anyone?
//-----
But back on the artwork matters, I'm writing again more to ask everyone for ideas and choices for their preferred leader, units and buildings - and some references to them. I can see some favorites throughout the thread but if you can name it and give me any image or links with information about this and that would be excellent, so I can start creating the models for the time when Nexus is ready to make things ingame (which probably won't last too much). Anyone?
Ikael
King
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2005
- Messages
- 873
I would really love to see Brazil included as a civilization 
I lived there for a year, had a Brazilian gf, loved the country.
About possible UU and traits, let me see...
Brazil can choose between several leaders, but I think that the contest would be between Pedro I and Getúlio Vargas. Pedro I was simply put, an outstanding ruler, quite one of the best ones that the country ever had, while Vargas turned Brazil into a full flegded nation, rather than a semi - ethereal political body, brutality nonwithstanding. And while I love Lula and mark my words, he is going to be rembered as the biggest stadists of the present times along with Devisingh Patil (president of India), he really doesn't fit into this game, which is based more around history rather than modern politics.
Special unit:
Independence dragoons. Had a way more relevant role on the battlefield than the bandeirantes, not to mention that they were way more proficient as a military unit, while the bandeirantes could barely be considered one.
Replaces calvary
Additional +2 strenght
If they end the turn inside friendly territory, they heal in one turn only
Special building:
Fazenda. Come on, let's stop with the soccer idiocy. Coffe plantations and fazendas have been way more defining to Brazil's economy and history than any soccer stadium.
Replaces garden, must be built near fresh water
+1 gold to every worked farm tile
Doubles the ouput of every food resource hex (says, if there's a wheat farm that produces 1 production and 3 food, it produces 2 production and 6 food instead!)
Special ability:
Carnival celebration: The "we love the king's day" celebrations last twice as longer until you have to search for a different type of luxury resource.
I lived there for a year, had a Brazilian gf, loved the country.About possible UU and traits, let me see...
Brazil can choose between several leaders, but I think that the contest would be between Pedro I and Getúlio Vargas. Pedro I was simply put, an outstanding ruler, quite one of the best ones that the country ever had, while Vargas turned Brazil into a full flegded nation, rather than a semi - ethereal political body, brutality nonwithstanding. And while I love Lula and mark my words, he is going to be rembered as the biggest stadists of the present times along with Devisingh Patil (president of India), he really doesn't fit into this game, which is based more around history rather than modern politics.
Special unit:
Independence dragoons. Had a way more relevant role on the battlefield than the bandeirantes, not to mention that they were way more proficient as a military unit, while the bandeirantes could barely be considered one.
Replaces calvary
Additional +2 strenght
If they end the turn inside friendly territory, they heal in one turn only
Special building:
Fazenda. Come on, let's stop with the soccer idiocy. Coffe plantations and fazendas have been way more defining to Brazil's economy and history than any soccer stadium.
Replaces garden, must be built near fresh water
+1 gold to every worked farm tile
Doubles the ouput of every food resource hex (says, if there's a wheat farm that produces 1 production and 3 food, it produces 2 production and 6 food instead!)
Special ability:
Carnival celebration: The "we love the king's day" celebrations last twice as longer until you have to search for a different type of luxury resource.
Gusss
Chieftain
Dude, we are talking friendly here... As much as i hate Lula, i said nothing about it because it wouldnt add nothing.
Quit this "go study" thing, let this to our moms and start doing something usefull here.
Wirapuru
a happy dog
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2006
- Messages
- 122
@Ikael
I really liked your ideas about Carnival and Fazenda, a bit overpowered in modifiers but the ideas are coherent and different. And I guess Independence Dragoons would be the way to go too, but I like more the Voluntários da Pátria concept.
@Canabrava
Itaipu's another great one, I'm just thinking on how to position it to rivers/lake, it could be nice a restriction as Machu Pichu has with mountains. But seeing how the engine's handling wonders placement (i.e. Pyramids and Stonehedges underwater) I don't think it'll look nice, at this point.
I really liked your ideas about Carnival and Fazenda, a bit overpowered in modifiers but the ideas are coherent and different. And I guess Independence Dragoons would be the way to go too, but I like more the Voluntários da Pátria concept.
@Canabrava
Itaipu's another great one, I'm just thinking on how to position it to rivers/lake, it could be nice a restriction as Machu Pichu has with mountains. But seeing how the engine's handling wonders placement (i.e. Pyramids and Stonehedges underwater) I don't think it'll look nice, at this point.
iRule
Warlord
Saudações
Let me give you my opinion, even though I'm Portuguese (but well, honestly, I consider every Brazilian a "Portuguese" and every Portuguese a "Brazilian" - we're two brothers separated by an Ocean and unfortunate historical events and decisions)
I think having someone as Lula as a leader is a terrible bad idea. Maybe it might be a great Unique Leader in Civilization, uh, X, but not today. I won't hide my admiration for the man (after all he made a country long known for its wasted opportunities into a rising global power) but it's just too soon.
No matter how you try to defend Vargas, I guess he's one of those icons in Brazilian history that perhaps did worse to his country than good. It's like Portugal's Salazar - well, after all Vargas was inspired by Salazar and they were friends, right? So, no.
Plus Vargas is a shadow compared to a man like Kubitschek. Kubitschek is the father of today's Brazil, and he was a visionary. I consider him and Lula (but DON'T make him a UL for Christ sake) to be perhaps one of the greatest leader Brazil ever had in its recent history.
Then we have Pedro II. Well, I don't know... he was a great man and all, but ultimately he made Brazil almost an United Kingdom's protectorate. Had he wanted and he could have made Brazil, or better saying, Portuguese America, the "United States" of South America, dominating culturally, industrially and economically all the other nations in the South, and perhaps rivaling the United States today.
Unfortunately Brazil is a country of lost opportunities, since ever, but fortunately the tide is changing and Brazil lurks into this new century as a new country and perhaps carrying all the legacy of the western world into this new world.
Viva ao Brasil!
Let me give you my opinion, even though I'm Portuguese (but well, honestly, I consider every Brazilian a "Portuguese" and every Portuguese a "Brazilian" - we're two brothers separated by an Ocean and unfortunate historical events and decisions)
I think having someone as Lula as a leader is a terrible bad idea. Maybe it might be a great Unique Leader in Civilization, uh, X, but not today. I won't hide my admiration for the man (after all he made a country long known for its wasted opportunities into a rising global power) but it's just too soon.
No matter how you try to defend Vargas, I guess he's one of those icons in Brazilian history that perhaps did worse to his country than good. It's like Portugal's Salazar - well, after all Vargas was inspired by Salazar and they were friends, right? So, no.
Plus Vargas is a shadow compared to a man like Kubitschek. Kubitschek is the father of today's Brazil, and he was a visionary. I consider him and Lula (but DON'T make him a UL for Christ sake) to be perhaps one of the greatest leader Brazil ever had in its recent history.
Then we have Pedro II. Well, I don't know... he was a great man and all, but ultimately he made Brazil almost an United Kingdom's protectorate. Had he wanted and he could have made Brazil, or better saying, Portuguese America, the "United States" of South America, dominating culturally, industrially and economically all the other nations in the South, and perhaps rivaling the United States today.
Unfortunately Brazil is a country of lost opportunities, since ever, but fortunately the tide is changing and Brazil lurks into this new century as a new country and perhaps carrying all the legacy of the western world into this new world.
Viva ao Brasil!
Saudações
Let me give you my opinion, even though I'm Portuguese (but well, honestly, I consider every Brazilian a "Portuguese" and every Portuguese a "Brazilian" - we're two brothers separated by an Ocean and unfortunate historical events and decisions)
I think having someone as Lula as a leader is a terrible bad idea. Maybe it might be a great Unique Leader in Civilization, uh, X, but not today. I won't hide my admiration for the man (after all he made a country long known for its wasted opportunities into a rising global power) but it's just too soon.
No matter how you try to defend Vargas, I guess he's one of those icons in Brazilian history that perhaps did worse to his country than good. It's like Portugal's Salazar - well, after all Vargas was inspired by Salazar and they were friends, right? So, no.
Plus Vargas is a shadow compared to a man like Kubitschek. Kubitschek is the father of today's Brazil, and he was a visionary. I consider him and Lula (but DON'T make him a UL for Christ sake) to be perhaps one of the greatest leader Brazil ever had in its recent history.
Then we have Pedro II. Well, I don't know... he was a great man and all, but ultimately he made Brazil almost an United Kingdom's protectorate. Had he wanted and he could have made Brazil, or better saying, Portuguese America, the "United States" of South America, dominating culturally, industrially and economically all the other nations in the South, and perhaps rivaling the United States today.
Unfortunately Brazil is a country of lost opportunities, since ever, but fortunately the tide is changing and Brazil lurks into this new century as a new country and perhaps carrying all the legacy of the western world into this new world.
Viva ao Brasil!
If you had looked into the links I added above you would not've say that of Pedro II.
van der Knivet
Chieftain
who are you trying to insult? slow the tone, man, we are doing this friendly here.
first of all: no one here has tried to diminish the importance of Dom Pedro II. he was a good man and a good emperor, after all, yes he was (even the first anarchist community on south america was his initiative!!!). but, was he the only one leader from Brazil? no, he wasn't. there are others. is he the representative leader for a Federative Republic of Brazil on civ? of course not, he was from the Empire.
second: I know that the Dragões da Independência fought on Bahia (and Pará and Montevideo). but that was not a huge War of Independence like some historians want us to think. that was only a secondary struggle caused by some uninformed guys that declared loyality to a side that had yet quitted. do as I say: scry the data present on the historian books: the side pro-Portugal was sustained by officials that was isolated from the Kingdom of Portugal, on the more distant and uncommunicable lands of Brazil: Pará, Maranhão and Cisplatina (today Uruguay), until they received a letter from the Crown to embark away home. the struggles of Bahia were from other scope. if you read the declamations carefully, were a third side there: some liberal-constitucionalists that fought the empire not in defence of Portugal, but simply against the monarchy. they were liberal-constitutionalists that was trying to restrict the power of the Crown on Lisboa. There is a previous fight for an independence of Bahia (not of Brazil), and later those fights spread over and over (Guanais Federation, Malês's Revolt and others) between Empire and Bahia.
third: Vargas a leader, yes. he was a fascist twerp, but he kind of created the Brazil as we know it. also, he is probably - until today - the most beloved president of the history of this country (although Lula is getting nearby). we may cry and be ashamed of that, but it's only the strict facts. he is still known by the most of the population as the "Father of the Poor".
fourth: "Lula is the first worldwide known Brazilian?". I've never said that. what I said was "for the first time in all history our leader is world-wide lauded by the other leaders as one of the most influent on international politics", and there is a big difference between these two speeches. if reading is good, reading correctly is better. as they say around here, não confunda alhos com bugalhos.
:::
iRule
Warlord
We also say that over here in Portugal
Sorry for my English.
Leaders - Dom Pedro ou JK. Vargas is a important figute, but a dictator. He could be a leader but need diferent units and building to replect his state as dictator, not a happy and love country. Lula, sorry but it is a joke, he is goin to be remember as the best queen Brasil ever have. He is very friednly of Fidel, Iran, Bolivia...
Units - Bandeirantes. It is the most import Brasilian unit. A early gunpowder with explore capacity.
I think we could use the diferent leaders to make diferent civilization:
Dom Pedro
Building - Fazenda
Unit - Bandeirante
JK
Building - Soccer Stadium
Unit - Pracinha
But... Or special trait need -1 penalty for every city, or unit for corruption. It is not something we like to talk about, but it is true.
Fabiano
Leaders - Dom Pedro ou JK. Vargas is a important figute, but a dictator. He could be a leader but need diferent units and building to replect his state as dictator, not a happy and love country. Lula, sorry but it is a joke, he is goin to be remember as the best queen Brasil ever have. He is very friednly of Fidel, Iran, Bolivia...
Units - Bandeirantes. It is the most import Brasilian unit. A early gunpowder with explore capacity.
I think we could use the diferent leaders to make diferent civilization:
Dom Pedro
Building - Fazenda
Unit - Bandeirante
JK
Building - Soccer Stadium
Unit - Pracinha
But... Or special trait need -1 penalty for every city, or unit for corruption. It is not something we like to talk about, but it is true.
Fabiano
Brazilian represent!
There is some good healthy discussion going on here. Except for the "go study" one. There's nothing here for me to add, pretty much everything has been said.
Id just like to add that there are 2 things on EVERY Brazilian city / town / village / etc, no matter how small or poor: and those things are a church and a soccer field. I've read this data while reading about the last census, so i was pretty impressed by that, considering how large our nation is, and i don't think having a Soccer Stadium as a UB is offensive in any way.
van der knivet seems to have some biased opinions. I had a grandfather who was a pracinha and no, they didn't just fought for some stupid hill. I wont even bother explaining, just "go study" (lol sorry, had to do that).
Rise of Nations had a brazilian nation mod, and in that mod, the Pracinha was a very average Infantry unit which was much cheaper that the average Infantry, available to other nations. That, i think, is one way to represent our badly equipped army, which, nevertheless, used what they had to fight valiantly.
There is some good healthy discussion going on here. Except for the "go study" one. There's nothing here for me to add, pretty much everything has been said.
Id just like to add that there are 2 things on EVERY Brazilian city / town / village / etc, no matter how small or poor: and those things are a church and a soccer field. I've read this data while reading about the last census, so i was pretty impressed by that, considering how large our nation is, and i don't think having a Soccer Stadium as a UB is offensive in any way.
van der knivet seems to have some biased opinions. I had a grandfather who was a pracinha and no, they didn't just fought for some stupid hill. I wont even bother explaining, just "go study" (lol sorry, had to do that).
Rise of Nations had a brazilian nation mod, and in that mod, the Pracinha was a very average Infantry unit which was much cheaper that the average Infantry, available to other nations. That, i think, is one way to represent our badly equipped army, which, nevertheless, used what they had to fight valiantly.
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