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Feedback for Canada: A Civilization Idea

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Dylan Gubler, Mar 24, 2017.

?

Over-powered, or Under-powered?

Poll closed Mar 29, 2017.
  1. I think this Civ is Over-powered.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. I think this Civ is Under-powered.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I this this Civ seems Balanced.

    1 vote(s)
    100.0%
  1. Dylan Gubler

    Dylan Gubler Chieftain

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    I recently posted this in the 'Design your own Civ VI Civ' Thread, and was hoping to get some feedback on it.

    However, the page seems to be little dead at the moment, so after seeing other's post Threads for their Civ Ideas, I thought it would be alright to do it myself.

    Here is the Idea, copied over from the Thread:

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    CIVILIZATION: Canada

    CA: Crown Land

    • Unimproved Tiles gain bonus Food/Production from High Appeal. (+1/+1 Charming, +2/+2 Breathtaking)
    • Builders can Plant Forests after researching the Exploration Civic. (Additionally, Original Forests become Old Growth)
    • Your Cities' District Maximum are Decreased by 1 (Cities must reach 4 Pop before they can build a District)
    My primary objective for a Canadian Civilization is create a Civ which benefits from keeping unimproved land around, enough that one (with careful management of appeal) could compete with more Industrialized Economies.

    I've played a few 'pretend' test games, and there's still plenty to do with workers. Place Improvements on Ugly Tiles, removing Marsh/Rainforest, wondering if you can get away with the odd mine here and there. It makes for quite a different game.

    I know Canada still mines, and cuts timber, but I feel this captures the spirit of the Canadian way of life: Living with the wilderness, and ensuring that it will always be there for Canadians, forever.

    Whether they need to cut timber, or go for a Hike.


    UD: Hudson Bay Company (Commercial Hub)

    • Does not count towards a City's District Maximum
    • Half the Production Cost of a Normal District
    • Updated Adjacency Bonuses: +2 Adjacent River, +2 Adjacent Luxury, +0.5 Adjacent Forest, +0.5 Adjacent District
    • Spawns a free Trader Unit upon completion.

    I like the adjacency bonuses, and the HBC helps mitigate the disadvantages of Crown Land. However, I can't help but feel that the HBC needs something before it becomes truly great.

    Originally, I planned on the HBC to be a replacement for the Industrial Zone. It wouldn't decrease the Appeal of nearby tiles, and the new Adjacency Bonuses would keep players from devaluing their land by building Mines/Quarries.

    However, the I thought about it, the more I felt that the Commercial Hub would be a better fit, historically speaking. The Orginal HBC Outposts (called Factories) were built along rivers, specifically to manufacture fur goods before being shipped to Europe.

    In Modern times, HBC is now a Shopping center, further cementing the argument that it should be a Commercial Hub


    UU: Mounted Police (Cavalry)

    • Does not require Horses to be built
    • Ignores Movement Costs from Features inside your Territory ( Hills, Forest, etc. )
    • Can Repair Pillaged Improvements

    The Mounted Police is meant to help mitigate the costs of maintaining a large, heavily forested Empire. They can quickly reach any edge of your empire, and once there, can outmaneuver an invading force.

    Once the war is over, the Mounted Police can also Repair anything the Invaders may have damaged, freeing up your builders to continue their work in other parts of the Empire.

    I was also playing around with the idea of giving them Improved Flanking Bonuses, to synergize with their Movement.


    -


    LEADER: Sir Robert Borden

    Prime Minister during WW1, Borden was a Politician of both Great Action, and Great Flaws.

    Under his leadership, Canada went from Crippling Depression to Booming Wartime Economy, producing massive quantities of ammunition for both the British, and the Americans.

    Away from Home, Canada saw success on the Western Front, taking Key German positions that European Generals had thought impossible. For their Speed and Ferocity, Germans went so far as to call them 'Storm Troopers', a term usually reserved for Elite German Formations which utilized the same tactics.

    He's not without his failures however. Borden promised to not Conscript, but inevitably passed the Military Service Act, which created a division in French and British Canada that can still be felt today.

    Everything that Borden did: Building a War Economy, Conscripting Troops, and Organizing them into the first Canadian Army, was for ultimately for one purpose: To earn Canada's place as an Independent Nation. Canada received its own Chair at the Peace Conference, and from then on, acted independently from Great Britain on the World Stage.

    + He was a supporter of the Women's Suffrage Movement. He introduced the a bill to extend Voting Rights to Women (Who met certain requirements), and worked to have it unanimously passed. So that's cool.

    LA: Arm of the Dominion

    • Builders do not spend a charge when Harvesting Resources or Removing Features.
    • During War, receive Triple Yield from Harvesting Resources or Removing Features.
    • Gain access to the Storm Trooper Unique Unit.

      NOTE: While all variables are up for debate (whether or not they should be raised/lowered) I am especially uncertain about Tripling the Yields from Harvesting/Removing. Please let me know what you think a fair number would be.

      I chose Borden because I wanted to break people's preconceptions about Canada. As such, Borden is all about taking using Canada's Bonuses offensively.

      With careful planning, Canadian Players can preemptively produce units. Upon declaring War, a few well placed Workers can ensure that those units are finished on Turn 1 of the Conflict. Even the Mighty Storm Trooper's increased cost will pale in comparison to your Industrial Output.

      Since Harvesting/Removing doesn't cost you charges, you can use a handful of Builders to exploit the wealth of forest tiles you've accumulated.

      You should be careful, however. Cutting down Forests will decrease the Appeal of your Land, which will hurt your long-term advantages from Crown Land. Make sure to have Builders on hand to begin the Healing process, and try not to harvest your Old Growth Forests.
    UU: Storm Trooper (Infantry)

    • More expensive than the Infantry, which it replaces
    • More powerful than the Infantry, which it replaces
    • Ignores Enemy's Defensive Modifiers (Units attacked by the Storm Trooper do not benefit from Hills, Forts, Forest, or Fortification)
    In order to affect the game as much as early UU's (like the Legion or War Cart), Late Game UU's need to be devastating. This Unit is no exception

    All of Canada's Bonuses help work towards the effect use of the Storm Trooper. Canadian Players should rush Exploration to take full of advantage of
    Crown Land, and then begin transitioning from defense to offensive. Use Borden's LA to rush out Storm Troopers at the Beginning of the Modern Era, and take as many cities as you can.
    -

    CLOSING

    I wanted to make a Canadian Civ that centered around Preservation of Wilderness, Managing Appeal, and Strength of Arms. I personally feel that I've succeeded, but the truth of that statement is up to all of you. Please let me know what you think, and what I should change.

    Additionally, here are some miscellaneous Ideas for Changes that I had.

    • Hudson's Bay Company: Have a free Trader Unit spawn upon completing the District.
    • Replace the Mounted Police with a Unique Resort Improvement that cane be built anywhere.
    • Remove the Storm Trooper's Increased Combat Strength, but provide a Large Bonus against Encampments/Cities.
    Thank you for reading.
     
    BrendanVI likes this.
  2. AnonymousSpeed

    AnonymousSpeed Pink Plastic Army Man

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    Now, I think Canada's #1 Export is Let's Players, so I probably can't speak for how representative of Canada's culture and achievements this is, but in terms of balance I can see a few issues arising. This isn't to say that Civ6 is a masterfully balanced game, but hey, what harm could come from discussion?

    Crown Land would be pretty overpowered, I think, because +2 food and +2 production is a pretty massive boost for something you literally do nothing for. Appeal isn't something you raise, land just starts with it, and should Canada find some high appeal tiles early (which forests and mountains can provide pretty easily), then they'll be able to grow and build fast enough to compensate for fewer districts. A simple forest with Breathtaking Appeal would be 3 food and 3 production, which is about as good as an improved tile. Maybe it should be more like "+1 Food from Charming, +1 Food / +1 Production from Breathtaking," which should represent the same idea while giving less of an extremely explosive bonus early on.

    The disadvantage of removing a district is made up for further by the Hudson Bay Company. You'll want a Commercial Hub in each city anyway, so removing one district but having a free commercial hub comes out as even, and its quicker to build to boot. Not only that, but it provides even more gold than the Commercial Hub and you don't even need to build the trader to get the benefit of trade routes.

    The Mountie is probably pretty weak, but I think its cool. Being able to repair improvements makes for an interesting and fitting use for a domestic force.

    What does Old Growth do, specifically? I mean, theoretically, but it's all theoretical.

    Eh, that's a pretty minor fault compared to basically any leader ever in a Civilization game. I mean, most of them tortured people to death, killed thousands for territorial gain, extinguished those who apposed them, or started wars more or less for fun. More like a footnote, really.

    That's pretty cool.

    Not really sure what to say about Borden. Again, not super knowledgeable about Canada, but he sounds pretty cool. However, I never harvest resources and probably wouldn't even with that ability, but that can be a pretty insane amount of production early on. Reducing it from tripling probably would be better, but even then that's a pretty crazy amount of production that could probably be used to one turn wonders. Which, honestly, might not be a bad thing, but seems odd if your intention is for Canada to preserve forest when their leader's ability gives you bigger bonuses for destroying natural resources.

    Now, since I actually do read the Design Your own Civ thread, I know you wanted to veer away from more "stereotypical" Canadian things, and from this post I know you want to represent Canadian military strength. However, while even I know that Canada doesn't get as much attention as it deserves for the role's its had in a lot of different wars, this idea seems almost a little too war-y, at least with Borden's unique ability. They might have been a prominent force, but Canada didn't actually seize any land during these conflicts and the idea of "Conquest" and "Canada" seem pretty far apart, which having a strong infantry replacement and war-time production bonus would encourage. The Stormtrooper's unique bonus is really cool and original, though.
     
  3. Cliomancer

    Cliomancer Chieftain

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    If you want an incentive to leave areas of nature untouched, perhaps you could offer an early unlock for a cheaper naturalist to build national parks and have them generate a bonus to production/food for nearby cities. Alternatively, maybe a unique improvement that grants a bonus for adjacent unimproved forest tiles.

    For the Hudson Bay Company perhaps in addition to an adjacency bonus from camps they grant extra gold from trade routes from the city based on the number of camp resources in the city.

    (Also since the Hudson Bay Company is still trading, I'd recommend changing the name. Trapper's post?
    Old Growth is an existing mechanic for forests. Basically after developing the ability to plant forests the ones which occurred naturally.gain a +1 bonus to their appeal.
     
  4. God of Kings

    God of Kings Ruler of all heads of state

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    I had ideas for alternate leaders, such as John A. Macdonald and the Canadian Pacific Railway essentially being Toronto's suzerain bonus, as well as increased movement along roads.
     
  5. masda_gib

    masda_gib Warlord

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    It is definitly interesting!
    I like the CA and the Mounted Police. The Mounted Police really has a helper-flair with the repair ability. Don't swap it for a special resort. Maybe instead allow Canada to create National Parks even on umproved tiles. It has less incentive to improve nice tiles anyway and it fits with the live-with-the-environment vibe.

    What is your reason to restrict the district number? It gets a bit cancelled out with the free CH. Basicly it encourages a CH everywhere.

    It is to see if Canada is OP early. +2/+2 on some tiles is a huge boost during the first turns. I think this Canada is Civ5's Spain: find a natural wonder and be happy. :)
     
  6. dunkleosteus

    dunkleosteus Roman Pleb

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    I think the prod/food bonus for appeal and district limitations don't reflect Canada very well. We have a big, beautiful country with lots of open space, but we still have big cities (compared to America, I think more of our population are located in big urban centres). Toronto is the fourth largest city in North America, and Canada has 3 cities with more than 1 million people: Toronto, Montreal and Calgary. If you sum up the populations of those three cities, you have about 5.6 million people (only including urban centres), which is 16.14% of our total population. For comparison, the US only has 10 cities with 1 million people or more, despite having 10 times our population. The total population of American cities with > 1 million people is 25861298, which is only 8% of the country's population. By that measure, Canada is MORE urban than America.

    Canada is rich in natural resources, wide open land, forests, prairies and low population density. We have the second largest country by area size but a very low population. We also have a lot of fresh water, some estimates claim that Canada has 60% of the world's surface fresh water, which makes up around 10% of the land area in our country.

    I'm not sure how well it would balance, but I'd propose the following: +1 appeal to adjacent tiles from lakes and forests; +1 amenity and housing for cities on tiles with charming appeal and +2 amenities and housing for breathtaking appeal. Districts get no bonuses from adjacent districts, -1 appeal on tiles that are in range of more than one city that you own. Also, halfed appeal penalties from mines and quarries (only give -1 appeal to adjacent tiles rather than -2)

    Not sure how well this would play out, but basically I see Canada as a civ that benefits from lots of space rather than tight quarters. When they can spread out, they get nice bonuses whereas they are penalized when they settle cities at the minimum distance from each other.

    For the HBC, I'd say it'd be better if it didn't get any +2 bonuses. Pull an Australia, and give it +1 for charming appeal and +2 for breathtaking and +1 for each adjacent improved luxury. Don't bother with regular tiles (ie forests).

    I also don't agree with Canada being a civ that focuses on unimproved tiles. Our country is "unimproved" only in areas where no people live, but only because we're so spread out. Canada's economy is based on exploiting our natural resources: we started with fur trapping and now we have mining, logging, farming, ranching, etc.

    In addition to our district, I think we should get another version of the seaside resort: the ski resort. Basically identical but it can only be built adjacent to mountains. Since we'd need lots of land space and high appeal, mountains and a lack of significant coastlines are a by-product of a good location to settle. Doesn't mean we don't get a unit as well.

    I don't agree with our district cap being reduced by 1.

    The mountie unit sounds fun.
     
  7. SlySlySly

    SlySlySly Warlord

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    Brazil also benefits similarly-ish. They get bonuses from keeping around jungle. But this would be good anyone, cause canada.
     
  8. AnonymousSpeed

    AnonymousSpeed Pink Plastic Army Man

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    Oh, didn't know that. Don't plant a lot of forests, thanks for clarifying.
     
  9. God of Kings

    God of Kings Ruler of all heads of state

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    Canada is the country with the most Civ players in the world not already represented as a full civ in the main Civ games.

    It would be great to see Canada there, albeit in an expansion or in DLC after the first expansion.
     
  10. 679x

    679x Warlord

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    I agree with dunkleosteus (what a name) about Canada and this idea. I think the -1 district and bonus from unimproved tiles would work much better for a Native American civ rather than one like the country of Canada as a whole.

    In fact, I'd even go as far to say that a Canada civ should get the opposite as your ideas: bonuses from tile improvements over resource-less tiles, e.g. lumber mills, and maybe even an additional district.

    If I were you, I for sure would NOT drop the idea -- just use the ideas for a different civ. I had this same idea for the Nazca of South America (you may know them for their Nazca Lines.) With the Nazca I would've given them culture from unimproved plains/desert tiles, which similarly inspires a playstyle involving leaving more tiles unimproved. I often find myself doing this anyway as I try to figure out which land should be saved for districts, and which land I should spend builder charges on.

    Definitely use these ideas, but try a indigenous North American civ that lived in pre-colonial times in what is now Canada.
     
    dunkleosteus likes this.
  11. Tequila_75

    Tequila_75 Chieftain

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    I'm not Canadian- but would enjoy an ability where it's easier to make friends/alliances with other civs. Maybe the first impression is always positive or something.
     
  12. BrendanVI

    BrendanVI Chieftain

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    good ideas and well thought out Dylan....
    i have been playing civilization since it was out on Playstation 1....i have since seen no Canada....

    some more ideas......

    bonus for Scouts +1 movement or +10 defense...seeing how Canada had many explorers in its discovery
    bonus on Furs +2 gold +1 Food.... as to like the Hudson Bay Company....
    Can purchase Musicians Cheaper or get two instead of one.... as to our awesome music which is big in the west.
    National Park Bonus
    Bonus building.... Hockey Arena.... because almost every rinky dink town has one.

    Military Units....Avro Arrow, ?

    Leaders....anyone but the Trudeau's.......

    The railroad bonus would be nice had CiV6 had railroads.....
     
  13. Manifold

    Manifold ModderProtectionAdvocate

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    Wait, why do not give Canada some a-bombs when they have researched the "Writing" tech and Canada could start the Space Race after building a city wall:nono:
    Seriously NO, this is very much too overpowered and has no real reference in reality.

    And also I would call your Canada Civ better Iroquoians;)
     

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