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Feedback: Religions

Discussion in '[MAC+WIN] Civ4 - History Rewritten' started by Xyth, Jul 16, 2011.

  1. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    :religion: Religions
    Feedback and Development

    This is the official thread for the discussion and development of the Religions.
     
  2. Howard Mahler

    Howard Mahler Since Civ 1

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    I tried the reduced religion option.
    Worked fine.
    Thanks!

    Huge map, 11 civs, 7 religions.
    Last one was founded in 810 BC.

    While I do not a problem with this, it is a little earlier than ideal for the last religion to be founded. If you wanted to adjust this, perhaps the reduced religion option could also increase somewhat the cost of a cemetery. On balance, I would just leave it alone.

    Makes some difference in how the game plays out.
    While I think I prefer this reduced religion option, it is good that everyone has the option to choose, or just change things once in while for the sake of variety.

    This is exactly the type of player option that increases the fun of players.
    It is a shame there is not a way to easily include some others.
    (I do not have a pressing suggestion.)
     
  3. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    It will vary a fair bit depending on who your opponents are each game too. Overall I think it's working well.

    While there don't seem to be any other obvious options to replace it is still possible to add additional functionality to the existing ones. Something to keep in mind.
     
  4. Azoth

    Azoth Inscrutable

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    Something is seriously wrong with Great Prophet generation in 0.9.4:

    I started a new game as Bismarck on an Inland Sea map. I became very suspicious when four Great Prophets were born in Washington between 525BC and 275BC. (It is literally impossible to generate four Great People within ten turns from a single city in the Ancient Age.) Then, it happened to me. In 200BC, the same turn I discovered my first Classical Age technology, Employment, a Great Prophet (my second in the game) was born in Aachen. Not only was the GPP bar in Aachen nowhere near full, Aachen also had no Great Prophet points in its GPP pool! (After Aachen gave birth to its first Great Prophet, I had taken advantage of the Progressive trait to run a Scientist out of the Cemetery.) So now I have illegitimately founded one religion - and America may have similarly founded up to four.

    I have attached a save file from that turn for your consideration.
     
  5. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    Ack, I know what could cause that. I'll have a fix soon.

    EDIT: Fix now available
     
  6. krazykaz1983

    krazykaz1983 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
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    Can't seem to found religions, had two great profits so far with no prompt to create a religion...Have Zoroaster in this game save...Any ideas?
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    I'm unable to load your saved game at the moment but it's likely related to the bug discussed above. How many religions have been founded so far by all civs and are you using the Fewer Religions option?

    Make sure you apply the most recent patch found here. I added the discussed fix to it yesterday.
     
  8. krazykaz1983

    krazykaz1983 Chieftain

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    No fewer religions, had 18 Civs, only 4 had been founded, now getting a new error.

    Cannot load version 302, expecting version 301 or lower...

    many many turns lost, not a terrible thing if it all works tho...

    EDIT: Just tested a few Civs and still cannot create new religions once a Great Profit shows up... Sad Panda about losing that save game....
     
  9. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    Ah sorry, I should have warned you that you'd lose your saved game. I can send you the original unpatched files if you want to continue it.

    Are you saying that Great Prophets aren't founding religions for you even in new games? Or just with that particular game? What settings are you using (advanced start, map/mapscript, speed, difficulty, etc)?
     
  10. krazykaz1983

    krazykaz1983 Chieftain

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    Retested after reloading the patches, all seems to be working well now, now worries about losing the save game I would probably done quite a few different things if I could have founded my own religion!
     
  11. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    Pleased to hear the problem is fixed. Hopefully you're next game is as (or more) enjoyable as the first!

    Thanks for the report and please let me know if have any other issues or questions :)
     
  12. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    BUMP!


    I'm experimenting with a change to prophet-founded religions at the moment, as part of redesigning the Paganism civic. Quick summary:

    • Great Prophets have a chance (50%) to found a religion
    • Chance is decreased by 20% if player already has a state religion
    • Chance is decreased by 30% if the prophet's city is a holy city
    • Chance is decreased by 10% for each religion already present in the city
    • Chance is increased by 50% if player has the Paganism civic
    • Prophets that found religions are consumed
    • Cemetery reverts to 1 free priest specialist, rather than 1 free specialist and priest slot

    Numbers are definitely not finalized, would like feedback. Goals of these changes:

    • Players that don't prioritise founding religions early will find it harder to do so once foreign religions start spreading into their territory
    • Players that do prioritize founding religions early can still found multiple religions but can no longer rely on the same city to do it for them
    • Most religions should still be founded relatively early but 'every civ has its own religion' shouldn't be quite as common.
    • More opportunity for religious blocs to develop, but not to the extremes seen in the standard BTS system
    • Cities that are holy for multiple religions should be less common*
    • Players wishing to avoid founding too many religions can switch away from Paganism and significantly lower the chance

    * This occurs because when the AI founds a religion its always in the city where the prophet was born, while for the player it seems to (usually) be in whatever city was founded last. I want player religions to work like AI religions but I've been unable so far to change it.

    I also want to look into religious decay and revamping inquisitions, but that's in the future.
     
  13. wanderm

    wanderm Chieftain

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    All for it. While I take the exact adjustments on faith (no pun intended) I am dead against having a unique religion for each Civ. As I tend to play with 18+ civs, this can be a real issue.

    So with this and the fewer religions setting maxing out at 12, my play (as per my preference) is close to BTS. Others of course have the option of the full 18, but spread in that manner.
     
  14. platyping

    platyping Sleeping Dragon

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    There is one python function to set location of holy city, which u can use to make it such that holy city is where prophet was
     
  15. myclan

    myclan Chieftain

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    if choosing fewer religions, how many religions there will be?
     
  16. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    2/3 as many as there are players in a game. This (and the regular setting of 1:1) wouldn't change with this proposal.
     
  17. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    This does work (in onReligionFounded), but there's still a message that the religion was founded in the incorrect city and that city still gets the religion spread to it (causing another unavoidable message). I can't see anywhere to suppress these, I can only assume they're triggered somewhere in the DLL.

    Unless I'm missing something, I suspect the only full solution is to write a custom choose religion popup rather than calling BTS' standard one, as that doesn't seem to return anything to the event it was called from (onGreatPersonBorn).
     
  18. platyping

    platyping Sleeping Dragon

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    Check how it is done in Worldbuilder.
    There is a code to assign the holy city directly to a specific city, and in doing so, found the religion if not founded.
    You can also choose whether the message is to be displayed or not
     
  19. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    The problem is the section that calls the choose religion popup:

    Code:
    # Display the popup for the player to pick a religion
    popupInfo = CyPopupInfo()
    popupInfo.setButtonPopupType(ButtonPopupTypes.BUTTONPOPUP_FOUND_RELIGION)
    popupInfo.setData1(iSlot)
    popupInfo.addPopup(iPlayer)
    No information is returned from that popup so I can't use it in conjunction with setHolyCity as I have no idea what religion the player chose. I can use setHolyCity in onReligionFounded (with a global variable storing the prophet's city) but the religion still gets spread to the DLL chosen city with accompanying messages - after the holy city was successfully moved by setHolyCity.
     
  20. myclan

    myclan Chieftain

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    I think Great prophets that found a religion should not be consumed, or players may find it rather annoying that they can't decide a great prophet founding a religion or not. Especially when other religious civic is not available
     

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