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Female leaders

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by liv, Nov 21, 2017.

  1. Patine

    Patine Chieftain

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    Joan D'Arc was only barely into womanhood historically - an adolescent by modern reckoning. Sexualizing her seems a bit disturbing...
     
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  2. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Warlord

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    Olga of Kiev would also give disloyal types something to worry about.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_of_Kiev

     
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  3. liv

    liv Warlord

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    Olga of Kiev is not on this list. Good suggestion
    Adding Irene of Athens as well

    Seems like a cluster of female potential leaders from that region
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
  4. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    Civ4 had Hatshepsut. :p
     
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  5. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

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    Though there is no comparison in their greatness, Irene was emperor, ruled longer and put down more rebellions, while Olga was a 5 year regent who put down a few decisive rebellions.

    In turns of Russian (or Kievan Rus/Muscovite, anyway, sth similar) female leaders, Sophia Alekseyevna (Peter the Great's half sister, who hindered him from the throne for at least 7 years) could be a reasonable rival to Olga as well.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_Alekseyevna_of_Russia

    Yeah, Hatshepsut wearing Nefertiti's crown lol.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  6. liv

    liv Warlord

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    I do not know about Sophia. It would be a bit weird to choose her as a leader given that Russia had some prominent female leaders
     
  7. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Warlord

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    I was referring to the viciousness of the revenge, not their comparative
    greatness or lack thereof.
     
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  8. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

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    Emmm Catherine would be my priority with no doubt. Empresses would have an arguably similar niche as Peter (as many had argued that they were at similar eras, representing the Russian empire), so I am nominating someone representing the Muscovite era or Kievan Rus, for the sake of variety
     
  9. Patine

    Patine Chieftain

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    What about Elizabeth (not the English queen, but the Czarina during the Seven Year's War and the War of the Austrian Succession, and I believe the mother of Napoleonic era Czar Paul - an often overlooked female monarch of a major European power).
     
  10. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

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    Shadowed by her daughter/niece in law, Yekaterina (Catherine).
    And poor Paul was Catherine the Great's son, actually. She wasn't overlooked lol.

    Maybe lets look at russian female monarchs around that period in a row for a better overview?

    Spoiler Succession line of Romanov dynasty: :

    In sequence of time:
    -Ivan V + Peter I (Sophia as regent)
    - Peter I
    - Catherine I (Peter's wife)
    - Peter II
    - Anna Ionnovna
    - Ivan VI (Anna Leopoldovna as regent)
    - Elizabeth I (Peter's daughter)
    - Peter III (Catherine's husband)
    - Catherine the Great
    - Paul I (Catherine's son)
    - Alexander I
    - and so on.



    Sophia Alexyevna:
    7 year princess regent, half sister of Peter the Great. Although Mucovite princesses were usually powerless politically, she managed to convince the guards and rose a bloody palace coup to grab power from Ivan V, young Peter's co-ruler. This allowed her to stay behind the throne, being the virtual tzarina until Peter became of age. Although her era was super close to Peter's, she was counted as Musovite leader as Russia was still tsardom at that time.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_Alekseyevna_of_Russia

    (From here we enter the imperial Russia after Peter the Great's westernization)

    Catherine I:
    Peter's wife, 1-2 year empress regent after his death. She didn't rule at all, but left the work to her counsels.

    Anna Ionnavna (the Ham face):
    Peter's niece, 10 year empress. She was pushed up to the throne by powerful nobles, who wanted to make her their puppet. Anna immediately managed a palace coup to make her power solid. Her rule was marked by her brutality in interrogations and lavish court entertainment. It was during this time, Banquets, Operas and Ballets became dominanat in the royal court. She didn't like to rule and left all the work to her lover, a german, called Biron.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_of_Russia

    Anna Leopoldovna:
    1-2 year regent, overthrown by Elizabeth. Not worthy for a leader choice.

    Elizabeth Petrovna:
    Peter the Great's daughter, 20 year empress. She made her coup after the death of Anna Ionnavna, using the palace guard at her side. She wasn't too remarkable at politics excpet for the diplomatic effort in forging an alliance with France + Austria against Frederick the great. However, her lavish lifestyle and court banquets reached the peak in Russian history. She held ball dance almost every night. Men wore dresses while women wore men's clothes in her balls. She also had 15,000 dresses and never wore the same one twice.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_of_Russia

    Catherine the great:
    34 year empress and called the Great. She was Peter the Great's granddaughter-in-law (or grandniece?). I suppose I don't need to detail her work here. What made her more legendary was that she ascended the throne by no birth right, but seizing it from her late husband.

    By comparison, Catherine was extraordinary in almost everyway, if we are looking for an imperial empress.
    In terms of power competition, most empresses had a good story to tell behind their thrones.
    In terms of political achievements, Elizabeth came closer, although still far away from what Catherine did.
    In terms of entertainment and lavishness, Anna Ionnavna and Elizabeth would be more superior, but we are not using this approach in leader selection.
    Therefore, Catherine is the doubtless choice.

    Many voices in the forum are opposing leaders from imperial Russia or eras around Peter the Great, but it seems quite impossible, as we can see most empresses/tzarinas were around his era. I am in support of Catherine no matter what.

    If we are looking for non-imperial female leader, Sophia or Olga will be reasonable.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  11. Benzombie

    Benzombie Chieftain

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    I don't know if anyone in this thread suggested it yet but does anyone have any ideas for a female leader for Germany? Or are there not any significant ones we would like to see?
     
  12. Patine

    Patine Chieftain

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    Salic Law being enforced very strongly in Medieval German States up to the end of WW1 make this VERY difficult. All I can really think of is Maria Theresa (Austrian Empress, but the Archduchy of Austria and the House of Habsburg were ethnically and linguistically German), and the still living and in-office Angela Merkel. I'm tapped otherwise.
     
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  13. Benzombie

    Benzombie Chieftain

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    See, I was thinking about Elizabeth Christine, wife of Frederick the Great. But then I thought to myself, "I rather just have Frederick again for Civ6".
     
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  14. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    There are some noteworthy empress-consorts, like Empress Matilda (claimant to the English throne) and Empress Maria-Theresa, Archduchess of Austria and Queen of Hungary. There were no empress-regnants of the HRE, just like there were no queen-regnants of France, and for the same reason: Salic law, just like Patine said. Maria-Theresa's father, Charles VI, had to change Austrian law so his daughter could inherit, and even then she had to fight several wars to assert her claim to the archducal throne.
     
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  15. awesome

    awesome Chieftain

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    I don't have time to go through the whole thread right now, but the Seneca were part of the Iroquois.
     
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  16. TahamiTsunami

    TahamiTsunami Chieftain

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    Looking back on the OP and remembering some posts that were made in other threads, it should be changed so that Anna Nzinga is the leader of Angola instead of the Kongo. The Angolan kingdoms she ruled (Ndongo and Matamba) were vassals to the Kongo but she wasn't a leader of the Kongo itself.
     
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  17. Patine

    Patine Chieftain

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    Angola was a political colonial creation of the Portuguese, not any nation created by original African political innovation. It only exists as such today because, due to the circumstances of decolonization, almost all modern African nations still follow colonial borders.
     
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  18. TahamiTsunami

    TahamiTsunami Chieftain

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that Angola, while not the name of a specific kingdom, was the name of the lands that the kingdoms of Ndongo and Matamba were on and it was listed among the titles of the King of the Kongo. I wouldn't mind if the civ was called Ndongo or Matamba but calling it Angola would be a neat way to combine both of those kingdoms into 1 civ. Regardless, my main point is that I don't think Anna should be listed as a leader for the Kongo.
     
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  19. liv

    liv Warlord

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    It was a confederation so that would make sense. Is it not still possible to say that she was a leader of Seneca?
    That is a fair point. I will change it
     
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  20. awesome

    awesome Chieftain

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    She was a Seneca leader. I'm just saying that there's an Iroquois bullet point, and also a Seneca one.
     
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