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Female leaders

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by liv, Nov 21, 2017.

  1. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    I hope not. CdM is a charming character, but France deserves a second ruler who is more iconic of the Ancien Régime, IMO.

    I was there for the whole leader board. :p
     
  2. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    We need campaign ribbons for that. What a slog.
     
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  3. Phrozen

    Phrozen Chieftain

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    Guess I was wrong Palenque showed up as a city state still in the livestream today so no Maya.
     
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  4. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

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    I guess because the Aztecs are a Civ, Firaxis has decided to delay the release of the Maya. So the Mayan warrior queen will have to wait....
     
  5. liv

    liv Warlord

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    Yeah, that was a bit of a bummer news.
    Makes it more interesting to figure out where the rest of the females will come from
    If the Inca is in instead of Maya - I think not any good choices for a female ruler?

    Native Indian leader: Jigonsahaseh would be a good choice

    Europe:
    Possibly good for those who are hoping for Tamar still
    Maria of Portuagal
    Ottoman Empire female (but I feel like that is less likely)

    For Africa I guess
    Dido is still a clear possibility
    Yaa Asantewaa would also be a good choice if they were going with another African Queen
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
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  6. Patine

    Patine Chieftain

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    All I can think of for the Inca AT ALL was Ayar Manco, the Inca Empire's founder and first Sapa Inca's, sister (I'd have to check her name again) who was quite important in the, admittedly historiographical, probably downright mythohistorical, tale of Cuzco and the Inca Empire's founding. That's all I could come up with there. And I was one of the weird kids in school who found the Inca cooler and more interesting than the Aztecs or Maya.
     
  7. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

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    I would like to suggest more alternative female Chinese rulers.

    Wuzetian in truth was the only female emperor in her own right and was rightfully choosen as leader for chinese civ.

    But in the long chinese history, there were more than dozens of powerful royal concubines and dowagers holding powers. Although many of them wield true power over the court and could be compared to the emperors themselves, they were often players under the curtains and went unrealized.

    Like Catherine di Medici, they were masterful players behind the figure head emperors.

    Take the examples of dowager Cixi (here is the wiki in case you never heard of her https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Dowager_Cixi)
    She wielded true power over the entire country yet she never assumed the title of emperor. (She was not a good leader example for chinese, as her reign worsened things in the critical situation imperial China was facing)

    There were more of them, I suggest :

    Empress Lu (wiki:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Lü)
    who was the wife of the founder emperor of Han Dynasty, holding absolute power openly for 15 years and famed for her cruelty towards rivals in court.

    Empress Dowager Deng
    (wiki: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Sui)
    who was a capable dowager regent behind the scene ruling through controlling her brothers and eunuchs. The inventor (or improver) of paper, Cai Lung, was under her patronage.

    Empress dowager XiaoZhuang
    (wiki: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Dowager_Xiaozhuang)
    who was the masterful ruler behind the scene in Qing Dynasty. Consort to the dynasty founder and dowager(and grand-dowager) to two younger emperors, XiaoZhuang oversaw the rule of her young son (who ascended the throne at 6) and later her grandson emperor Kangxi ( who ascended the throne at 8). Although never wielded power directly, she wisely prevented the civil wars for the throne and aided 3 pre-emperors (including her husband) into true emperors. She was the de facto contributor to Qing Dynasty's might.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
    liv likes this.
  8. Patine

    Patine Chieftain

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    I would have suggested Cixi save for the fact that the Qing (and last) Imperial Dynasty collapsed completely after her death, China was riven by rebellions, insurmountable turmoil, demands for reform and humiliation after humiliation heaped on by European powers, Americans, and even Japanese, and it was only a few short years after her death that the child Emperor Piyu took Sun Yat-sen's "sage counsel and advice" and abdicated without stating an heir, allowing Sun to establish the Republic of China and abolish over 4000 years of monarchy and surrounding ritual. Although Cixi had the political power, I don't consider her time period or situation to be ideal for a Civ leader. It's like having Russian Czar Nicholas II as a leader, frankly.
     
  9. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

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    Totally agree with it. Although Cixi was the de facto ruler, she is not a suitable representative leader for chinese in the game. The comparison to poor Nicholas II made me LMAO. That statment is just so agreeable.

    But if we are looking for a chinese female ruler who really drove the turbine of history, I supposed Wu will absolutely shine above the others. (I have seen her name everywhere recently so I really don't wanna admit it:cringe::cry:) Many of the other empresses were mainly smart victors of political struggles and could hardly build a legacy that surpassed their own dynasties. You know....chinese history is just so hard to push forward.

    Cixi did give it a good push...just directly into the trash bin.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
  10. liv

    liv Warlord

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    Cree being discussed as possible in main forum now. They are a major nation in Canada but I cannot think of any female leaders for them. ???

    Other lead being discussed is India. We have mentioned Rani Lakshmibai I think. It seems like the leak says the Alt leader is male and Chandragupta Maurya

    Also of course if neither of those two new civs are female that leaves us with 1-2-3 females to come from other areas. The female with ages ability is still out there and it will not be Isabella nor Elizabeth if this leak is legit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
  11. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    It will be Tamar...
     
  12. liv

    liv Warlord

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    I feel like that is the go to for everything LOL
     
  13. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    Well, it really is a good choice.
     
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  14. liv

    liv Warlord

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    Possiblity for sure.
    How about an Italian female? In Western history we often associate "dark ages" with the fall of Rome and the Renaissance (golden) with Italy so that would work as well. Seemed to have been a slight Italian hint in the trailer. So that would not surprise me either
     
  15. Patine

    Patine Chieftain

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    On the matter of the Cree, I do know they were VERY patriarchal, being a hunter/gatherer/warrior culture in somewhat unpleasant (the climate is still an aggravation here). Even their Medicine Men far outnumbered their Wise Women historically, and all historical Chiefs who made any record in the days when they had any real sovereignty were male. In fact, the Cree communities regarded their women as a valuable commodity to be married off to Coeur de Bois and HBC fur traders as strategic ties to their biggest business partners. Even today, Cree women being able to attain full Elder status is something only allowed in the last few decades. While I admire many things about my former long-term girlfriend's ancestral culture, I do admit it's not a good source at all of Civ female leaders. :(
     
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  16. GenyaArikado

    GenyaArikado Black Queen

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    Firaxis: WE WANT TO BETTER REPRESENT FEMALE LEADERS *Proceeds to pick ultra patriarchal native Civ and some indian over Queen Isabella*
     
  17. liv

    liv Warlord

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    There is room for more than one kind of diversity and it is not a competition. Isabella may still get her day. I would like to see her and Catherine as female rulers before all civs and alternates have been added.
    Cree may have been patriarchal if we use western terms to discuss their society. They did have clear roles and men were political leaders. But they also interestingly do not not have pronouns for he and she and in their stories the "womanspirit" connects everything.
     
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  18. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    If we're going to exclude any civs that were patriarchal... "Announcing Sid Meier's Civilization VII, with zero civilizations!" :rolleyes:
     
  19. Patine

    Patine Chieftain

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    In the way of pronouns and such, their language (though not remotely related) shares that in common with our discussion on the Georgian language earlier in this thread. ;)
     
  20. Phrozen

    Phrozen Chieftain

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    Best option would probably either be Matilda but she was a Holy Roman Empresses or Caterina Sforza who was reportedly pretty fierce in her younger days. Even facing down her own husband and Council of Cardinals during a siege while seven months pregnant.
     

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