Female rulers

[Thormodr]

It's hilarious how some things are taboo "just because."

This is how societies end up with a breast fixation in the first place.

By saying men can go open-chested but women can't.

Thereby adding an element of forbidden mystique that otherwise wouldn't be there.

Nothing wrong with a sense of modesty and decency.

Besides, most men shouldn't be going around topless, anyway.

 

[daft]

I hope that they do keep some of the female rulers in Civ 5 and add more....such as Tamar of Georgia, Zenobia of Palmyra (can do a one city civ like Venice in this case), Amanitore of the Kingdom of Kush, Tadukhipa of the Hurrians, etc.
While I do like Theodora as a historical figure, you have plenty of other and more powerful options for a female ruler of Byzantium.
I also suggest keeping Dido for Carthage...while there is a lot of legend behind her she does have historical basis written by Josephus and other historians and I also find that she is an intriguing and different AI character...very unpredictable and focuses on war. Also she's my favorite queen in history so perhaps I'm biased lol

1. Anna Komnene would be a good choice (although not really a ruler)
2. Definitely keep Dido, or just rename her to the proper Elyssa - for that was her real name, and she did exist, do not listen to all those naysayers, people like that would deny anything and everything.

Nothing wrong with a sense of modesty and decency.

Besides, most men shouldn't be going around topless, anyway.

You mean the overweight and past their retirement age ones as well?
(not that I'm one of either)

 

[Spartan1230]

1. Anna Komnene would be a good choice (although not really a ruler)
2. Definitely keep Dido, or just rename her to the proper Elyssa - for that was her real name, and she did exist, do not listen to all those naysayers, people like that would deny anything and everything.

Maybe even Aelia Pulcheria for Byzantium.
And I agree definitely possible to rename her Elyssa since in one of her intros she even refers to the fact that that is her name but "you can call me Dido". Unfortunately it seems as if what is in The Aeneid is taken more into consideration than historical documentation from early authors or history.

 

[daft]

If they'd finally introduce SCOTLAND into the game, Mary I (Mary Stuart), who actually was a ruler/great leader, might be included.

 

[Novu]

While many Egyptian women did go barebreasted, wearing skirt-like dresses that begin below the bust, you realize of course that many statues of Egyptian women that appear nude or topless at first glance are in fact wearing form-fitting dresses--including the statue of the Nubian woman you posted?

At any rate, I doubt the Civ franchise is going to risk their "family-friendly" image with topless female rulers; I mean, they even censored the bare breasts in the release trailer, as if no one has ever taken their child to an art museum. If that's not ample evidence that all of Civ6's female rulers will be fully clothed...

I am not arguing in favor of putting a topless Cleopatra in the game. What I am saying is from a historical stand point Cleopatra really did meet Julius Caesar with her breasts hanging out. It was part of her style of ruling in that she wanted to seduce Caesar. If it didn't work then her kingdom would have fallen right then and there. If they do put her in this "family-friendly" game then she should still be portrayed in a seductive nature.

Spoiler :

 

[cakes]

would she still be trying to seduce leaders at the bottom of the score list? seems more like a representational gimmick rather than a character

egypt's already in the game and it seems like we have a wonder-builder for egypt anyway

 

[Westwall]

Excellent point. Cleopatra should be getting more seductive towards you as your civ amasses more power and you climb the score ladder.

Damn, that's actually pretty brilliant.

It would be neat to show her kind of dismissive and "whatever" towards you early on when you're not that powerful, to full-on lusting after you with her breasts out when you're at the top or near the top.

It's too bad Firaxis probably won't have the balls to ever implement a system like that.

 

[poom3619]

would she still be trying to seduce leaders at the bottom of the score list? seems more like a representational gimmick rather than a character

That's was what Catheline did in Civ5... and maybe Theodora.

 

[Thormodr]

Excellent point. Cleopatra should be getting more seductive towards you as your civ amasses more power and you climb the score ladder.

Damn, that's actually pretty brilliant.

It would be neat to show her kind of dismissive and "whatever" towards you early on when you're not that powerful, to full-on lusting after you with her breasts out when you're at the top or near the top.

It's too bad Firaxis probably won't have the balls to ever implement a system like that.

Balls? More like they have common sense. This is a game, not a pornography video.

 

[Westwall]

Yes, let's remove historical accuracy and immersion for the sake of absurdly arbitrary notions of modesty.

 

[Thormodr]

Yes, let's remove historical accuracy and immersion for the sake of absurdly arbitrary notions of modesty.

Yes, let's impose a nudity warning and set an age limit on who can play the game.

Thankfully, Firaxis isn't that foolish.

 

[Westwall]

Nudity isn't even necessary, the feature is the important thing to take away.

It never made sense to me that civs would still act irreverent towards you when you're the most powerful empire on the planet.

 

[Zaarin]

If they'd finally introduce SCOTLAND into the game, Mary I (Mary Stuart), who actually was a ruler/great leader, might be included.

I think you'll have a hard time overcoming Elizabeth I's very effective propaganda to the contrary.

I am not arguing in favor of putting a topless Cleopatra in the game. What I am saying is from a historical stand point Cleopatra really did meet Julius Caesar with her breasts hanging out. It was part of her style of ruling in that she wanted to seduce Caesar. If it didn't work then her kingdom would have fallen right then and there. If they do put her in this "family-friendly" game then she should still be portrayed in a seductive nature.

Cleopatra VII was a fascinating individual, a brilliant mind, and an effective leader, but I'd rather see an actual Egyptian rather than an Egyptianized Greek as Egypt's great leader. Hatshepsut would be a much better choice, as she was doubtless one of Egypt's strongest pharaohs regardless of gender, is well-known, was an avid wonder-builder like Ramesses II, and of course was actually Egyptian. If they wanted to go for a less well-known leader, I suppose Nefertary or Nefertiti would be possibilities--I mean, Theodora was also a co-regent who nevertheless manages to be consistently selected as Byzantium's great leader.

 

[Novu]

Excellent point. Cleopatra should be getting more seductive towards you as your civ amasses more power and you climb the score ladder.

Damn, that's actually pretty brilliant.

It would be neat to show her kind of dismissive and "whatever" towards you early on when you're not that powerful, to full-on lusting after you with her breasts out when you're at the top or near the top.

It's too bad Firaxis probably won't have the balls to ever implement a system like that.

Best idea EVER! I like it.

Tired of these cookie cutter civs that are all the same. Give us REAL history and leaders with REAL personality to them. Wonder building, what kind of lazy brainless trait is that? Every Civ builds wonders. Give us adaptable game play.

This suggestion shouldn't be about nudity though. Keep it clean and family friendly.

 

[Westwall]

I like how nudity isn't "family friendly" right up until it's a mother breast-feeding.

Then suddenly people are reminded that breasts actually have a natural function and nudity is only "lewd" and "obscene" because outdated norms of certain contemporary cultures decided to deem it so.

 

[T.C.Douglas]

Golda Meir for the State of Israel.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: It is time to come back to the subject of this thread, who would be some good choices for female civ rulers. All this off topic stuff about nudity etc. needs to be dialed back.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Novu]

Cleopatra VII was a fascinating individual, a brilliant mind, and an effective leader, but I'd rather see an actual Egyptian rather than an Egyptianized Greek as Egypt's great leader. Hatshepsut would be a much better choice, as she was doubtless one of Egypt's strongest pharaohs regardless of gender, is well-known, was an avid wonder-builder like Ramesses II, and of course was actually Egyptian. If they wanted to go for a less well-known leader, I suppose Nefertary or Nefertiti would be possibilities--I mean, Theodora was also a co-regent who nevertheless manages to be consistently selected as Byzantium's great leader.

The problem with Hatshepsut, Nefertary, and Nefertiti is they didn't really do much. Their lasting impact on Egypt was minuscule and they had virtually no effect on outside civilizations. She sat on the throne for 22 years and kept the kingdom going building monuments and conducting trade and such. Hatshepsut was so unpopular with the Egyptian people that they smashed all her relics shortly after she died and tried to erase her from history. Not really the best choice for a leader.

Cleopatra VII was literally the most significant women to ever live because she changed the course of world history. What do you do when Julius Caesar shows up with at your door with his legions? Most leaders would just role over and die but not Cleopatra. She completely seduced him. It was the classic Venus disarms Mars story. Not only did she not get conquered she used Caesar to strengthen her power. She paraded through Rome not as a conquered slave but as Rome's new Queen. Rome was still officially/unofficially a Republic at this time and now they were turning into monarchy because of this woman. Cleopatra was one of the major reasons why Julius Caesar was assassinated by the Senate. She made Rome the mightiest power of the ancient world look like fools because she puppeted and bewitched their leader. Then she did it all over again with Mark Antony only her luck ran out that time.

The whole ancient world changed because of Cleopatra. Do you have any idea how much history would have changed without her influence? Caesar was dead, Rome was plunged into civil war, Roman Republic ceased to exist. This is all because of one very seductive woman. Cleopatra definitely deserves to be in the game as a leader.

 

[m15a]

Hatshepsut was so unpopular with the Egyptian people that they smashed all her relics shortly after she died and tried to erase her from history. Not really the best choice for a leader.

That actually makes her sound pretty interesting. Not every leader does enough to be hated.

But was it really "the people" as a whole that found her unpopular or was it a political thing? I haven't read much about it.

 

[bjbrains]

Conflating 'the people' with 'the next rulers' is a dangerous thing when talking about history. I haven't read anything that suggests that the people disliked her at all.