Fentanyl Overdoses

[Berzerker]

Do people use Fentanyl and overdose by accident, assuming they're not committing suicide, or is Fentanyl 'hidden' within other drugs unbeknownst to the user?

I keep seeing news of Fentanyl overdoses, an actor recently died in Brooklyn and some teen actor from Canada died last year I think. If it is the case that Fentanyl is being used in other drugs like cocaine and heroin wouldn't the solution be to legalize these other drugs to improve quality control?

Or snap our fingers and wish Fentanyl to disappear... Maybe this is China's revenge for the Opium Wars. It seems like when drugs are banned it just takes us down the path to harder more concentrated drugs with higher toxicity.

 

[AmtrakQuebec]

It's both... and more. Some don't realize how powerful it is and take it like Percocet, some people buy something on the street and it is laced with fentanyl because just a tiny bit can go a long way but usually these street dealers have no clue how to mix it properly... and don't care. The patch versions are quite safe but unfortunately some kids looking for a quick high will actually lick them which is often fatal. BTW, it's not just China flooding the market, North Korea is using it to raise money since their economy sucks dog poo.

The real concern these days is carfentanil, which is 10,000 times stronger than morphine.

 

[emzie]

This is a lethal dose of fentanyl:

So, the first problem is that it's just really easy to overdose on the stuff because it's so strong. As a medication, doses are in micrograms. Very few addicts have scales that precise. And even if you do have a scale accurate enough, if you don't know the purity of the product, you don't know your dose. Dealers will "cut" fentanyl with other powders like baking soda (they do this with heroin, too) to dilute the strength. If the mixing is poorly done, the resulting product will be a larger volume of powder, but the drug will not be evenly distributed. This means you could try out a new source, get a weak part of the mixture, and then the next time you use, you do 2x to compensate, but end up doing 10x as much of the drug. Making this worse, most people do not realize they're using fentanyl.* They buy what they think is heroin, but the dealer has diluted the fentanyl to mimic heroin's strength. If the dealer messes up, the user dies.

*an addict will know it's fentanyl once used, because the two drugs have different profiles

 

[Narz]

It's impossible to know.

 

[Edmund Ironside]

Apparently people are getting so scared of the potency of fentanyl that they think merely touching it or breathing the air near it can cause an overdose.
In the video below a police officer allegedly overdoses by breathing near some fentanyl!

Though whether he actually overdosed has been questioned by experts.
"People with the intent to get high, may overdose after 'snorting' or insufflating fentanyl - this is not to be confused with passively inhaling fentanyl powder that somehow became suspended in the air," she said. "Overdosing from such an exposure would be exceedingly rare and likely unheard of."
https://abc7chicago.com/san-diego-s...-question-overdose-exposure-officer/10942303/

So maybe he just fainted!?

 

[AmtrakQuebec]

That is not very likely; however, breathing near raw carfentanil could definitely kill you.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Do people use Fentanyl and overdose by accident, assuming they're not committing suicide, or is Fentanyl 'hidden' within other drugs unbeknownst to the user?
I keep seeing news of Fentanyl overdoses, an actor recently died in Brooklyn and some teen actor from Canada died last year I think. If it is the case that Fentanyl is being used in other drugs like cocaine and heroin wouldn't the solution be to legalize these other drugs to improve quality control?
Or snap our fingers and wish Fentanyl to disappear... Maybe this is China's revenge for the Opium Wars. It seems like when drugs are banned it just takes us down the path to harder more concentrated drugs with higher toxicity.

Might I suggest reading "METHLAND" ?1



As you are aware, Fentanyl is a drug of choice because it is about 10 times as more potent then Meth. That is the primary reason for using Fentanyl. Thus the higher OD rate

Supplies flow from China due primarily as weak law enforcement and the Corrupt government. China is still angry over the opium wars which collapsed its central government and pave the way for Japan to invade. Some see this as revenge but drug trade is also a problem inside China itself.

Dealing with the drug trade is complex issue.
It probably needs a huge study and then complex plan to deal with the issue that are the underlying CAUSE rather then simply legalizing which is like putting a bandage over the issue. Decriminalizing may help but by itself isnt a solution

 

[Synobun]

Do people use Fentanyl and overdose by accident, assuming they're not committing suicide, or is Fentanyl 'hidden' within other drugs unbeknownst to the user?

I keep seeing news of Fentanyl overdoses, an actor recently died in Brooklyn and some teen actor from Canada died last year I think. If it is the case that Fentanyl is being used in other drugs like cocaine and heroin wouldn't the solution be to legalize these other drugs to improve quality control?

Or snap our fingers and wish Fentanyl to disappear... Maybe this is China's revenge for the Opium Wars. It seems like when drugs are banned it just takes us down the path to harder more concentrated drugs with higher toxicity.

Most street ODs are unintentional. Drugs are cut and mixed with garbage components or other drugs in order to improve the bottom line of the dealer. Oftentimes, the dealer is unaware of what the mix is; there is very little oversight or expectation of oversight from both dealers and users.

It's why clean, safe supply is cited as essential for reducing harm. Clean drugs that are clinically dosed significantly reduce the chance of an overdose.

Yes, all drugs should be legalized.

Fentanyl will never disappear. It does not exist solely as a street drug. It is used as an anesthetic in thousands of medical procedures a day.

 

[Berzerker]

Might I suggest reading "METHLAND" ?1

As you are aware, Fentanyl is a drug of choice because it is about 10 times as more potent then Meth. That is the primary reason for using Fentanyl. Thus the higher OD rate

Supplies flow from China due primarily as weak law enforcement and the Corrupt government. China is still angry over the opium wars which collapsed its central government and pave the way for Japan to invade. Some see this as revenge but drug trade is also a problem inside China itself.

Dealing with the drug trade is complex issue.
It probably needs a huge study and then complex plan to deal with the issue that are the underlying CAUSE rather then simply legalizing which is like putting a bandage over the issue. Decriminalizing may help but by itself isnt a solution

Who do you want formulating a drug you're putting in your body, some illegal lab or Pfizer? I think a sizeable % of OD's are a result of the drug war in much the same way Prohibition led to people dying or going blind or whatever because quality control dropped.

There is no way Fentanyl is 10x meth, no way... It has been said the German Blitzkrieg was fueled by meth and we were giving it to our pilots flying missions over Europe in WWII.

This Fentanyl stuff kills people with just a little dose and I dont think its a stimulant, it must be a depressant while meth is in the stimulant category. The problem with meth is the body needs sleep and that stuff can keep a user awake for days and some people inject it and then use heroin to come down or even mix the two. Moderate use of any addictive drug is a challenge.

 

[amadeus]

It has been said the German Blitzkrieg was fueled by meth

Which they had to roll back because as it turns out the average Wehrmacht, once becoming a meth-head, had a tendency to fire off all their ammo and then poop out afterwards. Makes for a rather crappy blitzkrieg.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Who do you want formulating a drug you're putting in your body, some illegal lab or Pfizer? I think a sizeable % of OD's are a result of the drug war in much the same way Prohibition led to people dying or going blind or whatever because quality control dropped.

There is no way Fentanyl is 10x meth, no way... It has been said the German Blitzkrieg was fueled by meth and we were giving it to our pilots flying missions over Europe in WWII.

This Fentanyl stuff kills people with just a little dose and I dont think its a stimulant, it must be a depressant while meth is in the stimulant category. The problem with meth is the body needs sleep and that stuff can keep a user awake for days and some people inject it and then use heroin to come down or even mix the two. Moderate use of any addictive drug is a challenge.

I stand corrected up to 100 times more potent then Morphine

Fentanyl is a powerful synthetic opioid that is similar to morphine but is 50 to 100 times more potent.
is a prescription drug that is also made and used illegally. Like morphine, it is a medicine that is typically used to treat patients with severe pain, especially after surgery.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/fentanyl

Legalizing Fentanyl for general consumption will create another set of "problems"
Even the Ancient Chinese were well aware of the medical applications of opium and its destructive nature strictly controlled it. When the British came in and sold it as a legal commodity China was torn apart
But if you want to try doing this is America. I am sure the Chinese would be eager to supply cheap, safe, legal Fentanyl for the American Public. I bet the Chinese would jump at providing "free samples" to an eager and willing population.

 

[Synobun]

China is already exporting fentanyl to North America.

 

[Zkribbler]

China is already exporting fentanyl to North America.

We should scoop it up and drop it onto their pseudo-islands.

 

[Sofista]

Which they had to roll back because as it turns out the average Wehrmacht, once becoming a meth-head, had a tendency to fire off all their ammo and then poop out afterwards. Makes for a rather crappy blitzkrieg.

And a hard to dislodge mental image, Amadeus!

 

[amadeus]

And a hard to dislodge mental image, Amadeus!

Forgive me if I miss something here, "poop out" is an expression that means to get tired.

 

[Sofista]

Forgive me if I miss something here, "poop out" is an expression that means to get tired.

Well that's a relief. I had this image of these soldiers, jerking partly because of recoil, part because of bowe l movements.

 

[Farm Boy]

You ever been on too many stimulants? Most idioms have a... base.

 

[Berzerker]

good for losing weight and reaction time, bad for weak hearts

I stand corrected up to 100 times more potent then Morphine

Legalizing Fentanyl for general consumption will create another set of "problems"
Even the Ancient Chinese were well aware of the medical applications of opium and its destructive nature strictly controlled it. When the British came in and sold it as a legal commodity China was torn apart
But if you want to try doing this is America. I am sure the Chinese would be eager to supply cheap, safe, legal Fentanyl for the American Public. I bet the Chinese would jump at providing "free samples" to an eager and willing population.

The Chinese emperor wanted to ban opium because he didn't want his 'subjects' getting high and slacking off. The same argument is still used by people who support drug wars, even South Park used the 'be all you can be' approach to abstaining from pot. I read an article about opium use in Gold Rush California, a drug war was waged against Chinese immigrants. A Chinese miner said the white miners would drink booze while Chinese miners used opium, and the Chinese let the white miners think the opium was worse than alcohol.

I think legalizing the drugs that are being adulterated with Fentanyl will reduce OD deaths, but I've never used Fentanyl and cant imagine its appeal. Maybe there will be a significant market for it even if cocaine and heroin were manufactured legally without it. And if I'm in pain and morphine doesn't solve it maybe I'd want something stronger. Its a matter of dosage legal or not...

it seems to me the rationale for having a bureaucracy dedicated to ensuring drugs are not contaminated applies to legalizing illegal drugs.

 

[Farm Boy]

I would have agreed with that once upon a time. But the quality of painkillers received from doctors the past 20 years, and the dosages, have been absolutely legal and first class.

I'm coming around to there just being some drugs that really should not be legal to manufacture and sell on the open market without control. Sometimes serious control.

 

[Hygro]

FF comes in like Fentynal is 10x meth!

nevermind that they are completely unrelated drugs with incomparable subjective experiences. I’ll be skipping that book recommendation xD