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Ferries

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by TheDS, Sep 21, 2008.

  1. TheDS

    TheDS Regular Riot

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    Do you find lots of straits in your games, where you have to post a Galleon or Transport, just in case? Isn't it an unnecessary micromanagement hassle, to load a transport, then wait a whole turn and unload it, just to bridge a 1 tile gap? Yes it is! I have a simple solution: Ferries.

    Bridges would be unrealistic - we don't have any bridges that cross 100+ miles, and probably never will, but we do have lots and lots of ferries.

    In-game, a Ferry is formed by a Work Boat, not unlike how a Fishing Boat, Whaling Boat, or Offshore Platform are formed. When built, the Ferry acts like a road across that water tile. Multiple Ferries could bridge larger gaps.

    Now, instead of having to assign a transport or two to cover a gap, and having to deal with the monotony of all that, you instead assign a Work Boat to act as a Ferry, and units can now cross short water gaps as if they had roads on them.

    Why like a Road? First, the transport units are much more capable, in that they can bridge gaps of 4-14 water tiles. Allowing Ferries to act like Roads is a good compromise, and it just makes sense. Second, if the tech for Ferries is early enough (which it should be), then you can also implement the Road effects of Construction and Engineering - treat the Ferry like it's a bridge over a river! Third, once you get railroads, Ferries really don't need to be all that much more efficient than they already are. True, a Transport would be capable of keeping up with a Railroad, but if you want to do that, build a Transport.

    To keep Ferries from being abused, a few things need to be done as well.

    Ferries need to be the water-counterpart to Forts, such that a Ferry cannot exist unless it is coastal - deep water Ferries are prohibited.

    Units that are attacked while on a Ferry - the Ferry itself is attacked by enemy ships - are treated just like as if they were on Transports. They die without a fight. Ferries are not combat craft.

    Units cannot conduct attacks from Ferries. Ferries are still not combat craft. This also includes entering enemy territory from a Ferry; even though you're not attacking a unit, that doesn't mean you're not conducting combat on a scale too small to be seen.

    You can't enter an enemy Ferry. For some reason, they don't serve your kind. This also includes "unclaimed" Ferries, which can happen when cities change hands and are still in revolt. As this also affects Forts-as-canals, this is entirely consistent.

    If you've ever played the default Earth map, you know there is a lot of use in linking England, Japan, N/S America, Spain/Africa, and even Sweden/Denmark, and regular civ maps, particularly archipelagos, would benefit tremendously from this simple simplification.
     
  2. Onionsoilder

    Onionsoilder Reaver

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  3. salty mud

    salty mud Ey-up

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  4. DroopyTofu

    DroopyTofu Double Bass Double Bass

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    Sounds like a good idea.
    Someone should mod that in.
     
  5. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    Any kind of "bridge" to link together local islands would be a huge convenience and a pillagable ferry sounds very reasonable. Too bad it seems like it'd be really hard to mod in... you'd be transforming an ocean tile into a pseudo-ocean/land square... or maybe there's an easier way around? Reverse engineer a fort! :p

    As for activating technology, well, compass seems like a pretty obvious one to me.
     
  6. DroopyTofu

    DroopyTofu Double Bass Double Bass

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    I think their should be a negative movement cost. It takes time for the ferry to get from Point A to Point B. Also, you shouldn't be able to take some units on it. Tanks, War Elephants, Gunships, Mech Infantry, etc. wouldn't make since on a ferry. I would love to play an Archapelegio map with these.
     
  7. Firestorm94

    Firestorm94 zuh?

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    why wouldn't a huge elephant or tank be able to get on the ferries? DISCRIMINATION I say!:lol:

    that does make sense though, I think ferries are a great idea:goodjob:
     
  8. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    Eh, you shouldn't be able to airlift them either, but we don't want something as stupid as logic ruining our gameplay. :p
     
  9. CCRunner

    CCRunner Chieftain

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    Great Idea. I fully support this for civ V
     
  10. Onionsoilder

    Onionsoilder Reaver

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    Exactly. Airlifting tanks with WWI-Era Aircraft is how I win wars!
     
  11. rysmiel

    rysmiel Chieftain

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    I like it, with only the caveat that I'd prefer deep-water ferries should become feasible at, oh, roughly WWII tech level or a little later. (Anything for strategic variety in the late game.)
     
  12. rysmiel

    rysmiel Chieftain

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    accidental double post, please delete.
     
  13. Yared

    Yared That Guy

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    Spoiler :



    :confused:

    You sure these fellas can't?
     
  14. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Slight bump, but never mind.

    Seeing as it is on the front page again, I may as well give my $0.02.

    There is a reason why you cannot bridge a gap without a turn wait. If you could, invasions would be much easier. You would not only be able to attack coastal cities on your first turn of war, for example, you would also be able to attack cities two tile in from the coast, with tanks, modern armor and mech infantry immediately going onto the shores and pushing into enemy land. This would mitigate the vital defensive turn by the invadee (?) that is crucial for them to successfully defend their land. So this idea would only throw the game further into the hands of the attacker, which isn't really a good thing.
     
  15. Gangor

    Gangor Chieftain

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    I think you missed the part where it was suggested that both sides should be friendly to allow the ferry to work. Honestly the reason I think this will not be included in a future civ game is that it's use is so limited. When part of your empire is separated by 1 tile of ocean from the rest - how often does that happen??

    Perhaps if it is to be included it could be an order for a transport ship - units boarding the ship do not sleep the following turn and can continue with their movement path (having lost the rest of the turn moving on to the ship, of course).
     
  16. Lord OST

    Lord OST Chieftain

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    Great idea. Had that problem when I formed colonies in east Africa, playing Arabia on the "world map" game.
    Negative movement bonus is not logical. Boats are faster then walking, especially when without roads.
    But I think that they should lose the movement when leaving the ferry or line of ferries. (Not both when entering and leaving (or the opposite)). Shipping the wares will probably take a while. If you got controll over all the ferries across a straight to an enemy city, this will give the defender more time. And dont forget that the units will get lose strength for leaving the ferry.
     
  17. Gangor

    Gangor Chieftain

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    It takes a very long time to embark and disembark an army to and from ships. That is where the delay is.
     
  18. Silurian

    Silurian Chieftain

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    Ferries should only go one tile within the cultures borders
    Ferries should produce gold from the non unit traffic (miltary traffic and workers) but when units use it less or no gold and perhaps unhappyness in nearest city
    There should be a limit on the number of units carried per turn - perhaps 5
    Units would treat ferry as road but could not end turn on it
     
  19. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Yeah, I did miss that part. :blush: But I would still think that it is open to abuse. You could take advantage of it to load and unload in friendly territory in one turn, and use railways or roads to penetrate an enemy on the same turn. So, you could go much further inland that 2 tiles, given the use of railways and roads.
     
  20. Silurian

    Silurian Chieftain

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    The use of ferries in an assult would be restricted by limiting the number of units that could pass through them each turn.
     

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