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Fertility Rites, good or bad?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by RoboEmperor, Oct 2, 2020.

  1. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    The wiki says 10% after citizen consumption is worthless. Other people on the internet says its good. So which is it?
     
  2. Cpt Chaos

    Cpt Chaos Chieftain

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    Mostly worthless - growth is far more limited by housing than food. However, a free early game builder is not worthless at all.
     
  3. Breadsmith

    Breadsmith Warlord

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    You're pretty much here for the free builder
     
  4. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    The major problem with Fertility Rites is that its major effect, the Free Builder, is a One-Time Bonus. By taking it you pass up the chance to get a continuous and long-lasting bonus from some other Belief, like Initiation Rites that gives you Religion and healed Units from destroying Barbarian Camps for the entire game - something you should be doing anyway.

    It comes down to the individual initial situation - if you have an absolutely pressing need for early Improvements and a good reason not to go into an early war by stealing a Builder from your neighbor, then Fertility Rites may be a requirement. It's the old dialogue between Short Term/Immediate Gain and Long Term Gain.
     
  5. Siddharth Venkatesh

    Siddharth Venkatesh Warlord

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    A free builder is definitely a decent enough pickup in that if there isn't a pantheon you want badly. It's a good fallback option. The growth bonus is too minuscule and growth just isn't important enough in civ 6. Excess growth versus a food multiplier is already a problem but the main issue is that housing caps growth even if you have tons of food. I've picked it up for the builder if I want to archer rush someone just to get the craftsmen boost quicker.

    Initiation rights is a really bad pantheon though. It doesn't actually help get a religion, you need prophet points and not faith for that. You aren't going to get enough faith to faith buy your prophet from that. And you don't and shouldn't be killing tons of barb camps over the course of the game.

    Pantheons mostly tend to be short term focused anyway, there are only a few that actually do good stuff in the long term.

    For short term benefits from pantheons, nothing really matches Religious Settlements as an extra Settler is a huge boost in the early game. God of the Forge is good for an Archer or Horseman rush. Pasture Culture and Plantation Culture are decent as well if you have enough of those. God of the Sea can be a huge boost with enough sea resources.

    For long term benefits, Earth Goddess is great for large faith generation in the right scenario. Adjacency bonus pantheons are also very strong but very terrain dependent and an incredible combo with Work Ethic. They've mostly done a good job balancing the pantheons, once Goddess of the Harvest was removed.
     
    Inhalaattori likes this.
  6. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    I disagree. I don't need help getting a religion, but Religion, along with Production and Gold, is one of the three primary Currencies in the game. I can use Religion, with the right Civics and Social Policies, to buy Units, Settlers, Builders, Buildings, - and 2 destroyed Barb Camps with Initiation Rites gives me a Builder, and even with inflation, Barb Camps will keep getting me Builders and Settlers for a good part of the game. The other benefit of Initiation Rites is that it completely heals the unit that takes the Barbarian Camp, which both makes the unit more survivable in the middle of hordes of barbarians and also keeps the momentum going against the Next Barb Camp.

    And if you don't keep killing Barb Camps throughout the game, sooner or later you will find yourself posting a nasty screenshot on one of the Threads here of your city surrounded by Barbarians from the camps you did not suppress and destroy in time.
     
  7. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    Ok thanks I'm a stick to River Goddess then.

    I never found housing to be an issue. Amenities was always the bottleneck. I always settle next to a river though. I play tall instead of wide so getting my 4 cities next to a river is never an issue.
     
  8. japanesesamurai

    japanesesamurai Prince

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    Get the +2 faith for breathtaking appeal. While it doesn’t seem all thzt juicy, it can boost your mid-late gale faith generation significantly.
    Depending on the situation and whether you are going for a religion, desert folklore or holy site tundra / rainforrest adjacency combined with work ethic as a first belief is arguably the best combo. I would say with the right land, better than religious settlements, which is 99% of the time picked up by the AI anyway

    I’m not that big of a fan of the river goddess pantheon unless Im Hungary or something or there are just no lux tiles anywhere
     
  9. Siddharth Venkatesh

    Siddharth Venkatesh Warlord

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    Initiation rites is just such a small amount of faith. You can't really spend faith till Monumentality anyways and you get less than 1 builder's worth from a single barb camp.

    I also don't agree with barb camps being a problem after the early game. I typically kill around 3-4 barb camps over the course of the whole game and the only time barbs are ever a threat are in the very early game. My first barb camp clear also usually predates my Pantheon so it will be maybe 200 faith over the course of the game. That's very little. I don't know how you're having so many barbs to kill. By turn 100, I have sight on the majority of my land and the main barbs that remain are either on different continents or are coastal. I'm not going to go out of my way to kill them. If I have military lying around, I want to use it to kill a neighbor, not have it waste time dealing with barbarians.

    So, sure, it's maybe 2 builders with monumentality that I have to go fairly out of my way to get, instead of just getting a builder immediately and getting the production boosts right away. I'll pretty much always take Fertility Rites over Initiation Rites.

    I do appreciate seeing your viewpoint on this. This is not really a pantheon I've ever thought about. I disagree but it's interesting to see someone who uses it. A pantheon elimination thread might be very interesting to see.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
    Oberinspektor Derrick likes this.
  10. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    I don't know how good this is but
    I go holy site for monasticism and then afterwards use the faith to buy military units with Grand Master's Chapel. It's much easier to buy new armies with faith instead of using gold to upgrade existing units.
    The +2 housing and amenities gets my pops to 10 for each city real quick so at turn 150 I get rationalism's full bonus.

    And that's the entire reason I go Holy Site. Not for religion or religious victory. Just monasticism and military army buying.
     
  11. Chekko

    Chekko Warlord

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    I like to take those free builder/settler/trader pantheons when I know I won't be focusing on religion and I don't have much in my area that works with the other pantheons. It's a nice boost to speed things up.
     
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  12. Galvatron

    Galvatron Warlord

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    You're both missing the point. IR garrantees that no barbies will spawn near you for the entire game.
     
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  13. Inhalaattori

    Inhalaattori Emperor

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    How? Does it have some hidden mechanic that stops barbarians spawning? Initiation rites is horrible Pantheon. Probably worst in the game.

    Fertility rites is also pretty average if you ask me. It gives small early boost, but IMO its not enough to make it valid option in most situations. Usually there are better options.

    There are only few Pantheons that are pretty much always good and those are Earth Goddess and Religious Settlements. Usually Earth Goddess being the better option.

    River Goddess is amazing if you are playing Khmer. Earlier it was one of the worst Pantheons, but after it was buffed to +2 amenities and +2 housing for holy sites on river it is one of the better pantheons. I guess on some island maps there are not that many rivers, but usually you can build most of your cities and holy sites on rivers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
  14. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Somewhat ok as China or if you somehow built the pyramids before this. It's not a terrible idea if your pantheon is really late and your production is so bad that you can't build enough districts to take advantage of divine spark.
     
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  15. Siddharth Venkatesh

    Siddharth Venkatesh Warlord

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    You don't need to have built the pyramids before do you? As long as you build it before the last charge is used. You could also put Liang in the capital if you have her unlocked.
     
  16. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Yea, naturally you don't need the pyramids, but if you're building/built it, it's more appealing.
     
  17. Galvatron

    Galvatron Warlord

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    Everyone needs the Pyramids.
     
  18. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    Faith, not Religion.
     
  19. Civ Chemist

    Civ Chemist Chieftain

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    The only time I found it really useful was for a China OCC.
     
  20. shaky

    shaky Chieftain

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    Never been tempted to take it. Give me a free builder at the start of every era and I'll consider it.
     

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