FfH2 0.16 Balance Recommendations

[Kael]

Yeah I think boosting the river attack modifer is a good idea. Its actully settable in the editor (global defines row 100) so anyone can change it for their game as well.

 

[Civkid1991]

I was just thinking... it would be interesting if you were to give the Taskmaster a hidden nationality promotion. Along with this to make it more balanced you could remove the mercenary from this civ. Whenever i play i don't really feel the need to build the taskmaster but if it were hidden then i could send them out and would be more likely to get a slave. During times of peace i usually get the mercenaries to weaken the nearby cites before i go to war. I could put the Taskmaster to better use if i could attack with hidden nationality. I guess you can lower the % chance a slave is produced too.. so it wouldn't be more balanced.

 

[MrUnderhill]

The problem with that (like with any non-Orc UU with hidden nationality) is that human players would immediately know who attacked them. This means that hidden nationality would be useless in multiplayer, and the AI would be put at a disadvantage because it can't look up UU's. It kind of makes you wish there were more humanoid barbarians to mix it up a bit and confuse us humans into attacking innocent AI's.

The idea is good, but is there another way to go about it that doesn't put the AI at a disadvantage?

 

[Civkid1991]

The problem with that (like with any non-Orc UU with hidden nationality) is that human players would immediately know who attacked them. This means that hidden nationality would be useless in multiplayer, and the AI would be put at a disadvantage because it can't look up UU's. It kind of makes you wish there were more humanoid barbarians to mix it up a bit and confuse us humans into attacking innocent AI's.

The idea is good, but is there another way to go about it that doesn't put the AI at a disadvantage?

O yea i totally forgot about that.. but that brings up something else i was thinking about. Is it possible to have units with different graphics if they are hidden nationality. Like if i have a Taskmaster and i send it out and we're playing multiplayer then the taskmaster would show up on your side as a regular assassin rater then the Taskmaster UU graphic. I dont know if this would cause problems or not.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Well, if the only non-orcish HN assassins were Balseraph, you'd have the same problem.

 

[DieselBiscuit]

This reminds me that it might be a good idea not to broadcast which player built the Council of Esus.

 

[Kael]

O yea i totally forgot about that.. but that brings up something else i was thinking about. Is it possible to have units with different graphics if they are hidden nationality. Like if i have a Taskmaster and i send it out and we're playing multiplayer then the taskmaster would show up on your side as a regular assassin rater then the Taskmaster UU graphic. I dont know if this would cause problems or not.

No, I dont know of any way to change graphics based on a promotion. Otherwise we would have glowing swords if they were enchanted, auras for bless and regeneration, etc etc.

 

[Civkid1991]

No, I dont know of any way to change graphics based on a promotion. Otherwise we would have glowing swords if they were enchanted, auras for bless and regeneration, etc etc.

Have you tried looking through the c++ files for the code that picks the xml tag for it graphics location? If you can find it then i think that you could probably add in a new xml tag for alternative graphics and then you can say in the c++ or python file if unit has promotion then get info location for alternative graphics and use them. I haven't look at how xml info is gotten but since you know how to add the diplomatic things i think you maybe able to find out how to do it.

 

[Kael]

Have you tried looking through the c++ files for the code that picks the xml tag for it graphics location? If you can find it then i think that you could probably add in a new xml tag for alternative graphics and then you can say in the c++ or python file if unit has promotion then get info location for alternative graphics and use them. I haven't look at how xml info is gotten but since you know how to add the diplomatic things i think you maybe able to find out how to do it.

Oh yeah, I've dug through it, TheLopez has looked for it, White Rabbit has looked for it. But the most I have been able to do to effect unit graphics is to hide or show the flag. Everything else seems to be in the graphics engine or the exe, which we don't have access to.

 

[Sureshot]

could make two units for it, and switch between them (copying promotions, xp, and levels) when nationality is changed. I doubt its worth doing that tho, prolly be better to make some way for the barbs to get all civs units (like anytime a civ's city is razed, theres a chance of spawning barbarian units of that civ), then you can just blame the barbarians.

 

[Kael]

could make two units for it, and switch between them (copying promotions, xp, and levels) when nationality is changed. I doubt its worth doing that tho, prolly be better to make some way for the barbs to get all civs units (like anytime a civ's city is razed, theres a chance of spawning barbarian units of that civ), then you can just blame the barbarians.

Yeap, that would work and we may use that in very isolated conditions (a "disguise" ability on svartalfar units for example) but it isn't very applicable on a wide scale just because of all the new issues it opens us up to. Like if I have a Balor disguised as a berserker why is he suddenly about to be charmed? How come an elven ranger is better against a unit with elf slaying when he is disguised than when he isnt? Why, when I enslave a disguised dwarven warrior do I get a human slave? etc etc.

All questions that can be delt with, but you can see what it starts to do.

 

[MrUnderhill]

prolly be better to make some way for the barbs to get all civs units (like anytime a civ's city is razed, theres a chance of spawning barbarian units of that civ), then you can just blame the barbarians.

Crazy thought here, bear with me:

How about we set it up so that the unique units available to a city is based on culture, rather than who owns it? For example, if I'm playing as the Khazad and I take over Hyll, should the units that come out of Hyll be dwarven or elven? I'd say they'd be elven until my culture takes over. Same for the barbs taking over an elven city.

It would also keep culture warfare from getting too strong. Sure, the city might flip to your side eventually, but until that happens, your opponent could be building an army of your units!

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Yeap, that would work and we may use that in very isolated conditions (a "disguise" ability on svartalfar units for example)

Or a doppleganer Hero.

 

[DieselBiscuit]

Yeap, that would work and we may use that in very isolated conditions (a "disguise" ability on svartalfar units for example) but it isn't very applicable on a wide scale just because of all the new issues it opens us up to. Like if I have a Balor disguised as a berserker why is he suddenly about to be charmed? How come an elven ranger is better against a unit with elf slaying when he is disguised than when he isnt? Why, when I enslave a disguised dwarven warrior do I get a human slave? etc etc.

All questions that can be delt with, but you can see what it starts to do.

A possible answer to these problems could be creating a wrapper class for units that inherits the variables and methods from the unit class, but delivers different information to the real owner and the owner of what unit it impersonates. An example would be a doppleganger unit that's invisible and can choose to 'copy' any unit on the same plot as itself (spell target). The information from this unit is stored in the wrapper class. When the disguise/form-ability is activated, the wrapper class returns info from the stored unit whenever requested from by processes spawned from players who doesn't own the unit.

I am currently wishing that I had my programming classes in C++ and not Java. I'm fond of playing with things like this but it is probably better left to someone more versed in the ways of C++. Anyway, I'll toy around with it for a bit and see if I can come up with anything remotly useful.

 

[MrUnderhill]

You mean a class that IS_A unit and HAS_A two unit values that it can switch between whenever it's called as a unit?
I wonder if that's possible. The first thing that comes to mind is a copy constructor, but would that work if we use pass-by-reference?

EDIT: Would it be something like this? (Don't copy-and-paste, I doubt this will work)

class CvMultiUnit : CvUnit{
    public:
        //Get and set functions here.
    private:
        CvUnit showToOwner;
        CvUnit showToEnemy;
}

CvUnit::CvUnit(const CvMultiUnit& me, CvPlayer player=me.getOwner()){
    if (player == me.getOwner()) &this=me.getShowToOwner();
    else &this=me.getShowToEnemy();
}

 

[Sureshot]

would be nice if more terrain promotions were added

like a snow one, giving bonuses in tundra/ice, and double movement on the second one
a desert one, which also does floodplains and oasis (which could also get the offensive bonus since theyre features and feature offensives work currently)

i know doviello already get some snow ones, and malakim already get deserts ones (would be nice if orcs get jungle ones added, as well as special jungle improvements), but like the elves get special elven bonuses, itd be nice that only gave them the head start and highest potential in that terrain, instead of the monopoly with no advancement possibilities.

 

[DieselBiscuit]

You mean a class that IS_A unit and HAS_A two unit values that it can switch between whenever it's called as a unit?

Reply posted in mini-mods thread to avoid threadjacking

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Revealing Iron early gives Doviello a large advantage due to iron weapons promotion before others can field units of this strength. Is it possible to reveal a resource but not allow it to be worked?

 

[BCalchet]

Revealing Iron early gives Doviello a large advantage due to iron weapons promotion before others can field units of this strength. Is it possible to reveal a resource but not allow it to be worked?

Hmm... I'd imagine the easiest solution would be to require a specific building for iron weapon improvements - say,

Smithy (50-100)
Available at Iron Working
Outfits Doviello units and Mercenaries with Iron Weapons.
Allows an Engineer specialist.

(Dwarven Smithy changed to outfit mercenaries with iron as well as its current abilities - this way, they alone can get iron weapons for mercenaries without Iron Working.)

 

[Maniac]

I'm currently playing a Sheaim game. It's annoying that the Dragon Cult can cause me extra unhappiness with certain civics. How about a Dragon Temple building which is automatically created in a Sheaim city with the Cult,and which gives +1 happiness with Religious Discipline and Theocracy each?