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FFH2, Fall Further, Orbis

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by AgentTBC, May 17, 2009.

  1. Rutee

    Rutee Chieftain

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    I have a dumb question. I don't mod, so forgive my unfamiliarity with the interface..

    Opera mentioned the Worker Tech requisites were a source of controversy to working together. Is it impossible to make it an option? Like "Tick this option if you do/do not want to have workers require techs"?

    Obviously, the more civs will probably remain a point of controvers, which I think I legitimately understand, but eh.

    Also, an unrelated question, do the Scions unconditionally OOS in MP in Orbis, like they do in FF?
     
  2. Opera

    Opera Chieftain

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    Hm... Can't answer that. I don't really know how it's handled now. That should be possible, anyway.

    This can be easily worked around. In FF, you have the possibility to not allow a civilization in the game. Just disallow those you don't like, for the AI, the human or both.
     
  3. OzzyKP

    OzzyKP Chieftain

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    I played FF a bit. And for what it's worth (not much) some of my impressions:

    I like how workers can build farms/mines etc without the tech in FF. But I don't entirely like the worker promotions. I especially don't like the XP decimals, it makes it confusing, I just want a quick answer to how much XP a unit has. I don't like the various training buildings, seems to be unnecessary micro-management. I also don't like the great people pop-ups. I wish I could turn it off, or maybe just have them pop up for my own great people. They get distracting.

    I'm also undecided on the messages telling me when cities are going to expand. It is very useful, especially in the early game when you have a few cities. But later on it gets distracting. And I was really excited about the options to "avoid unhappiness" or "avoid unhealthiness" for cities. But it didn't seem to work very well when I tried it. :(

    I played a game as the good lizards, and they seemed like a builder's paradise. It was fun. I also tried the explorers, but... I don't know if I had bad luck or if something is screwy but I was really, really looking forward to units that had better chances of popping good stuff from dungeons. I built the hero and gave him good dungeon popping promotions, and then like 6 dungeons/lairs in a row gave me all bad results. :(

    I really like the different types of barbarians. Though I never made it far enough in the game to experience the hell spawning demons. The games kept crashing when I got further into the games. Obviously the crashing is something I'm not too fond of. ;) I also liked how barbarians clumped up.
     
  4. Honor

    Honor Immortal

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    I agree with the point about XP decimals being redundant. I would appreciate it if FF did store the XP in decimal form, but only displayed it in integer form on the interface.
     
  5. Rutee

    Rutee Chieftain

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    I thought the problem was where focus was made?

    ...But then in discussing a unity project, you get to have the best of both worlds anyway, huh?

    'cause.. I REALLY love both mods. Orbis' economic changes and FF's new civs (Who generally are flush with unique mechanics) both appeal to me greatly.
     
  6. Opera

    Opera Chieftain

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    Of course there is a problem with focus. I was just saying that some things could be worked around in some way, granted the project took some form.

    I know exactly how you feel as I love both mods too. Honestly, I dreamed once of merging them but I know realize it would be extremely painful to do, both code-wise and design-wise. The better thing I dare hope for is a mod that takes a bit from both; however this hypothetical mod won't be perfect, as it would have to not take some things that I may like more than the one it took instead.

    For now, I think the best is still to trade features. Many features from FF are imported into Orbis and FF+ by Valkrionn imported some from Orbis to FF. It's fine by me, as it allow the modders to work and to rethink some things. For example, FF+ reworked a bit the Mechanos (creating a new religion) and Orbis reworked a bit the Mazatl.

    But the choice is still hard to make. So I play both mods...
     
  7. sputnik323

    sputnik323 Magelord

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    I think they trade features more than people realize - if not directly - often remaking things. FF used to not have corporations and I think they were added in by part of influence of orbi. I prefer the Mazatl in orbi, but I may like the new Mechanos in FF+.

    I agree the choice is hard, I mainly stick with orbi because of combat and economics. But I bounce back to FF when something excites me - Like the master smith promotions, and want to try out the Jotnar.
     
  8. Rutee

    Rutee Chieftain

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    If I had the remotest idea of how modding worked, and the smallest assurance that my course load would be low next semester, I would consider doing something, but neither exists. Sadness.

    The coding is seriously that different? I figured if you were using the same mod as a base, and altered relatively little (Comparing Last Frontier or FFH2 to Vanilla Civ), it wouldn't be /that/ impossible. But that's what a lack of understanding does, makes everything look easy..
     
  9. Opera

    Opera Chieftain

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    No, it's not that different. It's mostly grunt-work really annoying to do. Especially with the XML files. Adding one tag would require to redo all entries in one XML file and those can be quite long (the UnitInfos one is huge!). Let's that it would be a really long and tedious work to do for one person.
     
  10. ICanHasName?

    ICanHasName? Chieftain

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    wouldn't it be possible to write a little python script that would put a specified new tag into the specified file? It would just dig through the XML and find </someXMLtag> in each entry, then go to the next line, then input <newXMLtag>0</newXMLtag>

    I don't know how you would get it to push enter to make room for it, but other then that I think I might try to write one.
     
  11. OzzyKP

    OzzyKP Chieftain

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    Yea, I agree completely.

    Also, I just realized there is an option for Worker XP. Cool. :goodjob:
     
  12. WarKirby

    WarKirby Arty person

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    They're definitely not redundant.

    Ranged attacks yield 5% of the damage done as xp. Which is rarely an integer value. likewise, training buildings allow a unit to gain small (<1) amounts of xp per turn.

    Blame Civ 4's xp system. for putting things on such a small scale. Most rPGs have you require something like 100xp for lv1, and it gets into hundreds of thousands. In the upper levels ofunits in civ, you rarely see an xp requirement above 50 to the next level .FF is just working around that flaw in the numbering scale, and giving more finegrained control over things.
     
  13. Honor

    Honor Immortal

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    I meant "giving feedback to the player about the decimals" is redundant, not calculating and storing them. I do not really need to know my archer has 13.27 XP, my brain only registers the "13" when I look at that number anyway, since that is the part that actually matters. The ".27" is information that I don't really need.
     
  14. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Personally, I prefer being able to see them. Of course, I also mod functions that use decimal xp, so it's handy being able to see the exact value. :lol:
     
  15. PapaMonkey

    PapaMonkey Chieftain

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    I like the decimal XP, but that could simply be the engineer in me. Decimals keep me warm at night.
     
  16. xienwolf

    xienwolf Chieftain

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    I'd think if it wasn't displayed we would get a LOT of questions about why a unit isn't always gaining XP for a ranged attack, or why the training XP suddenly stopped coming. Being able to see that you only gained 0.05 (but did gain SOMETHING) helps keep the worry-mongers content :)


    It wouldn't be too hard to remove the display of the decimal portion of the data if someone wanted to and knew a tad bit of python.
     
  17. Honor

    Honor Immortal

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    That actually did occur to me, too. I mean the part about the worry-mongers :D

    I took a look at the code in CvMainInterfaceFF.py. Pray tell, do I edit this section below?

    Would changing:
    iExperience = pUnit.getExperience()
    to
    iExperience = int(pUnit.getExperience())
    achieve this effect?
     
  18. xienwolf

    xienwolf Chieftain

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    This part:

    Code:
    					if ((pHeadSelectedUnit.getExperience() > 0) and not pHeadSelectedUnit.isFighting()):
    						szLeftBuffer = localText.getText("INTERFACE_PANE_EXPERIENCE", ())
    						CurrXP = pHeadSelectedUnit.getExperienceTimes100()
    						fCurrXP = pHeadSelectedUnit.getExperience()
    						NeedXP = pHeadSelectedUnit.experienceNeededTimes100()
    						fNeedXP = pHeadSelectedUnit.experienceNeeded()
    						if (CurrXP%100 == 0):
    							if (NeedXP%100 == 0):
    								szRightBuffer = u"%.0f/%.0f" %(fCurrXP, fNeedXP)
    							elif (NeedXP%10 == 0):
    								szRightBuffer = u"%.0f/%.1f" %(fCurrXP, fNeedXP)
    							else:
    								szRightBuffer = u"%.0f/%.2f" %(fCurrXP, fNeedXP)
    						elif (CurrXP%10 == 0):
    							if (NeedXP%100 == 0):
    								szRightBuffer = u"%.1f/%.0f" %(fCurrXP, fNeedXP)
    							elif (NeedXP%10 == 0):
    								szRightBuffer = u"%.1f/%.1f" %(fCurrXP, fNeedXP)
    							else:
    								szRightBuffer = u"%.1f/%.2f" %(fCurrXP, fNeedXP)
    						else:
    							if (NeedXP%100 == 0):
    								szRightBuffer = u"%.2f/%.0f" %(fCurrXP, fNeedXP)
    							elif (NeedXP%10 == 0):
    								szRightBuffer = u"%.2f/%.1f" %(fCurrXP, fNeedXP)
    							else:
    								szRightBuffer = u"%.2f/%.2f" %(fCurrXP, fNeedXP)
    						if (len(szRightBuffer) > 9):
    							szRightBuffer = u"<font=1>" + szRightBuffer + u"</font>"
    						szBuffer = szLeftBuffer + "  " + szRightBuffer
    
     
  19. Honor

    Honor Immortal

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    Thanks a lot! :D
     

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