Fidel Castro dead

[Traitorfish]

I think there's been some pretty serious disagreement between that regime and its people for some time. People have been taking a longer, harder look and they've been killed for it, or tried to get away when they saw people killed for it. Florida is full of people who got a long, hard look at it. People so desperate to get away that they clung to over-burdened sea vessels over a period of decades were pretty aware of the way it looked, from their long, hard observations. I just don't think you said much, or at least much insightful, in that sentence.

I mean, Flordia is full of fascists and mafiosos, but point taken, Cuban opposition to the Cuban government is not a novelty. What I'm suggesting is that most people, while aware of the regimes flaws, have not seriously imagined an alternative, because the only readily-available alternatives were said fascists and mafiosos. That's changing, and I think that Castro's death will be, if not a spur for change, then a watermark in an already-existing shift.

I suppose I have a more positive opinion of Castro and Cuba than many due to my focus on Cold War Africa. Consistent opposition to white rule in Africa, support for national independence movements, and consistent social, economic, and industrial assistance looks far better than however you want to characterized the disgusting mess US policy toward Africa was. (Or, if you are feeling uncharitable, how US policy toward Africa is.)

Of course, to a lot of Americans, Britons, at least one Australian- opposing Apartheid is almost worse than being a communist.

 

[The_J]

Drank a Cuba Libre yesterday

 

[tetley]

What's going on with Justin Trudeau saying respectful things about a dead man? I see that President Trump (he is already President, right?) spoke for the U.S. and called Castro a brutal dictator, no love lost. Meanwhile Obama said nothing. The U.S., possibly following Trump's lead, Is attacking Trudeau for saying nice things about a dead man.

 

[plarq]

What's going on with Justin Trudeau saying respectful things about a dead man? I see that President Trump (he is already President, right?) spoke for the U.S. and called Castro a brutal dictator, no love lost. Meanwhile Obama said nothing. The U.S., possibly following Trump's lead, Is attacking Trudeau for saying nice things about a dead man.

Current US President is Barack Obama. He's already a lame duck and everybody is realigning themselves into more hawkish positions. Even though Trump would be isolationist in military intervention, he would not be politically appeasing Iran or Cuba like Obama did.

 

[Lohrenswald]

Obama attended the funeral of the last king of saudi arabia

try to convince me that the saudi arabian government is worse than the cuban

 

[Traitorfish]

I see that President Trump (he is already President, right?) spoke for the U.S. and called Castro a brutal dictator, no love lost.

Well, it's Trump, so that could well be intended as praise.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Breitbart is about as non-neutral of a "news" source as you can get, and quoting them only decreases your credibility. It's hardly a surprise that an alt-right, anti-semitic "news" site would want to associate a liberal Canadian Prime Minister with the far left, accurately or not. It's among many sites (on both the left and right) that are known to play loose with facts and, if not outright mis-state things, at least take things out of context to make them seem to support their viewpoints more than they really do.

Not saying that it's necessarily inaccurate in this case, but I'm not trusting that is an accurate representation of Trudeau until I read it on a reputable, well-established journalistic site. The Internet makes it very easy to publish articles, but also very easy to misrepresent the facts to try to move someone to a certain viewpoint, and thus it's important to consider the journalistic integrity of a site.

Edit: Seems it was largely accurate in this case, but here's a link to an article from a more reputable organization (Canada's largest weekday newspaper): http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ary-revolutionary-and-orator/article33057429/

Some of the Canadians quoted have been like yappy attack chihuahuas for years - Harperites who would criticize Justin Trudeau even if he just smiled and said "Good morning" to them. Lisa Raitt once ranted about Trudeau's morals because he (gasp!) took his shirt off in public. Thing is, it was at a charity auction, his shirt was auctioned off, the money raised was donated, and he was wearing an undershirt anyway.

What's going on with Justin Trudeau saying respectful things about a dead man? I see that President Trump (he is already President, right?) spoke for the U.S. and called Castro a brutal dictator, no love lost. Meanwhile Obama said nothing. The U.S., possibly following Trump's lead, Is attacking Trudeau for saying nice things about a dead man.

Part of what Trudeau said was out of respect for his parents' friendship with Castro. There are photos on Canadian media of Castro holding the youngest Trudeau child, Michel, when he was a baby. Michel died in an avalanche in 1998, two years before Pierre Trudeau died. So they considered Castro a family friend, and that's why he was sitting with them at the state funeral, and was an honorary pallbearer.

The rest of what Justin Trudeau said was diplomacy. Cuba isn't going to evaporate in a puff of smoke, now that Fidel Castro is dead. The country will go on, and who knows where it'll go next. Raul Castro won't live forever either, and I have no idea what plans may be in the works for when he dies or steps down. It doesn't hurt to keep the diplomatic options open, and this is something that Donald Trump does not understand and I doubt he ever will understand.

 

[Vectors]

Some of the Canadians quoted have been like yappy attack chihuahuas for years - Harperites who would criticize Justin Trudeau even if he just smiled and said "Good morning" to them. Lisa Raitt once ranted about Trudeau's morals because he (gasp!) took his shirt off in public. Thing is, it was at a charity auction, his shirt was auctioned off, the money raised was donated, and he was wearing an undershirt anyway.


Part of what Trudeau said was out of respect for his parents' friendship with Castro. There are photos on Canadian media of Castro holding the youngest Trudeau child, Michel, when he was a baby. Michel died in an avalanche in 1998, two years before Pierre Trudeau died. So they considered Castro a family friend, and that's why he was sitting with them at the state funeral, and was an honorary pallbearer.

The rest of what Justin Trudeau said was diplomacy. Cuba isn't going to evaporate in a puff of smoke, now that Fidel Castro is dead. The country will go on, and who knows where it'll go next. Raul Castro won't live forever either, and I have no idea what plans may be in the works for when he dies or steps down. It doesn't hurt to keep the diplomatic options open, and this is something that Donald Trump does not understand and I doubt he ever will understand.

For most of Trump's life Cuba and the US have been at odds whereas Canada and Cuba have never been at odds and Canadians are the biggest visitors to Cuba by far. I do not and have never liked Trump, but viewing Castro as an evil dictator is a quite normal perspective for an American to hold.

 

[Traitorfish]

For most of Trump's life Cuba and the US have been at odds whereas Canada and Cuba have never been at odds and Canadians are the biggest visitors to Cuba by far. I do not and have never liked Trump, but viewing Castro as an evil dictator is a quite normal perspective for an American to hold.

If Trump is going to be the commander-in-chief, "a normal perspective" might not be good enough.

 

[Esperr]

I was under the impression that his brother was in charge anyway since 08'. I have a somewhat loose grasp of there political system, but was he even still relevant in Cuba in terms of government?

 

[_random_]

Castro was a very complicated figure, and one I'm mostly sympathetic to. Seems hard to deny he did more good than harm in the end, considering how goddamn awful Batista was. Castro succeeded in repeling US imperialism in Cuba, and in winning many advances for oppressed people around the world. And it makes sense to me that all of his major political actions were in pursuit of those ends. I definitely don't agree with all those actions, and I'm more than willing to criticize the many areas in which he was lacking. But that feels inappropriate, at the moment.

 

[tetley]

Current US President is Barack Obama..

Oh, OK. Because the way it's been going, you'd think Trump was already President.

 

[Cutlass]

I was under the impression that his brother was in charge anyway since 08'. I have a somewhat loose grasp of there political system, but was he even still relevant in Cuba in terms of government?

Fidel was no longer running the government. But he was extremely relevant to the Cuban political scene.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Fidel was no longer running the government. But he was extremely relevant to the Cuban political scene.

Yep. Just because a leader steps down, that doesn't mean that people are automatically no longer interested in what he/she has to say about certain issues. Of course Castro would still have opinions and influence, even though the final say was no longer his.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Because it's a lie, as you well know.

Being personally acquainted with someone, even being friendly with them, does not mean that they control what your political affiliations are. And if you think it does, then that makes you no different than any other KGB agent.

This would appear to be a relevant photo to post:



Well... obviously I don't know how to post pictures, so never mind.

 

[Takhisis]

I see that President Trump (he is already President, right?) spoke for the U.S. and called Castro a brutal dictator, no love lost. Meanwhile Obama said nothing.

Well, it's Trump, so that could well be intended as praise.

You might be on to something there. After all, Drumpf praises Putin and Putin certainly appears to have liked Castro. Telesur and Russia Today have had some sort of friendship lately and the -thankfully- failing Bolivarian movement has tried to lean on Vladimir Vladimirovich for support.

 

[tetley]

If someone had bad things to say about a dead guy, even that I could understand--if he was a genuinely really bad guy. But...ridiculing someone else because they don't want to insult a dead guy like you do....? What do I say? I never understood how this feminine hygiene product of a President ever got votes to begin with.

 

[Hygro]

That's more or less how I feel. Castro's regime was not, ultimately, a good thing for Cubans, but there wasn't a realistic choice that was. At least they got a few schools and hospitals out of this one.

I don't admire his regime, but I understood why it remained as popular as it did for as long as did. While little will actually change with Castro's death, it's a powerful symbol that you can only hold on to the romantic image of the revolutionary past for so long, so I expect more Cubans to begin taking a longer and harder look at their government than they have done so far.

This is my best guess.

 

[danjuno]

Obama attended the funeral of the last king of saudi arabia

try to convince me that the saudi arabian government is worse than the cuban

To borrow part of a phrase from John McCain, Saudi Arabia is a rape dungeon masquerading as a country.

 

[Quintillus]

Drank a Cuba Libre yesterday

Same here. Seemed appropriate, in multiple ways, and I'd had some rum stashed away for the occasion for a few years now.

Some of the Canadians quoted have been like yappy attack chihuahuas for years - Harperites who would criticize Justin Trudeau even if he just smiled and said "Good morning" to them. Lisa Raitt once ranted about Trudeau's morals because he (gasp!) took his shirt off in public. Thing is, it was at a charity auction, his shirt was auctioned off, the money raised was donated, and he was wearing an undershirt anyway.

Part of what Trudeau said was out of respect for his parents' friendship with Castro. There are photos on Canadian media of Castro holding the youngest Trudeau child, Michel, when he was a baby. Michel died in an avalanche in 1998, two years before Pierre Trudeau died. So they considered Castro a family friend, and that's why he was sitting with them at the state funeral, and was an honorary pallbearer.

The rest of what Justin Trudeau said was diplomacy. Cuba isn't going to evaporate in a puff of smoke, now that Fidel Castro is dead. The country will go on, and who knows where it'll go next. Raul Castro won't live forever either, and I have no idea what plans may be in the works for when he dies or steps down. It doesn't hurt to keep the diplomatic options open, and this is something that Donald Trump does not understand and I doubt he ever will understand.

Thanks for the additional context. It's funny, down here in the States we tend to think of Canadians as pretty civilized, if a bit hockey-obsessed at times (but no more so than Americans are with football). It's unfortunate that their are attack chihuahuas up north too, but at least you aren't known for it on the international scene yet!

I've thought for years that the U.S. embargo and lack of diplomatic relations (until very recently) was a relic of the cold war, and a policy that should've been scrapped decades ago when it was shown to be ineffective, or at the very least by the late '90s when the USSR had fallen and Cuba had not after Soviet subsidies ended. And as mentioned by another poster above, the U.S. is partially responsible for its own diplomatic problem by refusing to work with Castro in the early '60s when he was still open to the idea of maintaining friendly relations with the U.S.