Figure out what Attila is speaking

[Guandao]

Okay, well this is probably a long shot, as I don't have any expertise regarding languages of in this area.
The first thing Atilla says, given that he says his name, is probably an introduction, likely meaning "I am called Atilla" or something similar. Most languages in the region around the Black Sea and Caspian Sea are grammatically subject first, so we can assume the first thing he says is the word "I". Looking through a database of equivalents of this English word, we can find that the Ossetic word for I is /æz/ in IPA, which is close to the first syllable that Atilla says in his intro.
Could this be a lead, anyone?

That's seems very reasonable. Maybe Attila's speaking Ossetian instead of a Turkic language. Ossetian is descended from the language that the Alans spoke, which is descended from the language(s) of the Scythians.

 

[Khagan1]

I do not think so, because if Attila were to say "I am Attila," he would be saying:

*men Attila!

Also, the reconstructed Proto-Turkic language does not appear to have the voiceless velar fricative (/x/), which is present in his speech.

Yes, that's right. If we assume that he says his name it would start with first personal pronoun which a few examples are given in here for Ural-Altaic languages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fi-ugr-turk-comparison.png

But if he declares his title or simply says "hello", it would be different.

That's seems very reasonable. Maybe Attila's speaking Ossetian instead of a Turkic language. Ossetian is descended from the language that the Alans spoke, which is descended from the language(s) of the Scythians.

Well, some languages are highly effected from Turkic languages in Caucasia but I think Ossetian might be the least exposed one. I hope they did not such thing. Even Georgian is more accurate than Ossetian for which they share some common elements with Kypchak (Cuman) culture.

Here is also a map of Ural-Altaic languages. I think its helpful to see big picture, literally: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...f_the_Altaic,_Turkic_and_Uralic_languages.png

 

[Morningcalm]

The lingua franca of the Hunnic Empire, according to Wikipedia, was Gothic, so hopefully that's what Attila is speaking. But Gothic is an extinct language and Firaxis may have been lazy...so who knows? I hope the developers eventually reveal what language Attila is speaking, but I'm unsure if that will come to pass.

 

[Blue Anteater]

Attila does not appear to be speaking any Indo-European language either.

If he was speaking Gothic, he would be saying "Ik im Attila!"

 

[Khagan1]

The lingua franca of the Hunnic Empire, according to Wikipedia, was Gothic, so hopefully that's what Attila is speaking. But Gothic is an extinct language and Firaxis may have been lazy...so who knows? I hope the developers eventually reveal what language Attila is speaking, but I'm unsure if that will come to pass.

Well I suggest not use wikipedia for Turkic history or even for History in general. Articles are very biased and sometimes full of wrong statements.

Gothic certainly cannot be language for Huns. It is ridiculous. Why do they need another language apart from their own?

Goths, Germans, Finno-Ugric tribes and even aliens could have followed Attila and Huns but that is what they are, followers. Founders of Hun civilization are Huns. The essence is Hunnic culture which stretches from Mongolia to Hungary. I see too much bias against them in every thread. I don't mean you by the way, I'm talking about general tendency like in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=455952

None of the civilizations in this game represented by any lingua franca of any time. Why do Huns always be subject to such suggestions? Whether people admit it or not, Huns have unique, separate and specific culture and language. They should be represented by only themselves.

 

[AbsintheRed]

None of the civilizations in this game represented by any lingua franca of any time. Why do Huns always be subject to such suggestions? Whether people admit it or not, Huns have unique, separate and specific culture and language. They should be represented by only themselves.

I don't want to defend Firaxis or anyone else, in fact I absolutely agree with your post
Nevertheless, the reason for those reactions are probably the lack of information about the Huns and the Hunnic culture, not some kind of bias against the Huns
Noone can really expect Firaxis to have them speak Hunnic language, if noone knows what that exactly sounded like...

 

[Khagan1]

I don't want to defend Firaxis or anyone else, in fact I absolutely agree with your post
Nevertheless, the reason for those reactions are probably the lack of information about the Huns and the Hunnic culture, not some kind of bias against the Huns
Noone can really expect Firaxis to have them speak Hunnic language, if noone knows what that exactly sounded like...

Yea I know it's hard, I didn't mean developers does not put any effort to cultural dimension of game, in fact they are great at it. I'm more concerned with suggestions in forum about Huns. You are right about lack of information. It is not that people are biased but most of the information comes from popular culture and wikipedia instead of academic resources.

By the way, we have Babylon, Persia, Greece, Egypt etc. which are represented as ancient civilizations and somehow people are ok with their link to the modern civilizations although it's open to discussion.

Huns, on the other hand, are much more related to today's cultures (Ural/Altaic) but somehow people react different compared to other ancient "civilizations".

 

[Krzowwh]

I think technically they should be speaking a Mongolic language, as their ancestors were widely considered to be the Xiongnu by Central Asian sources at the time. And the Xiongnu were considered by the Chinese to be closest to the Xianbei Mongols than any other ethnicity at the time, so ideally it should be something like Monguor.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

Why not Karaimish, it is geographically the closest Turkic language from Attila's empire ? Maybe, it's a remnant.

 

[Morningcalm]

Well I suggest not use wikipedia for Turkic history or even for History in general. Articles are very biased and sometimes full of wrong statements.

Gothic certainly cannot be language for Huns. It is ridiculous. Why do they need another language apart from their own?

Goths, Germans, Finno-Ugric tribes and even aliens could have followed Attila and Huns but that is what they are, followers. Founders of Hun civilization are Huns. The essence is Hunnic culture which stretches from Mongolia to Hungary. I see too much bias against them in every thread. I don't mean you by the way, I'm talking about general tendency like in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=455952

None of the civilizations in this game represented by any lingua franca of any time. Why do Huns always be subject to such suggestions? Whether people admit it or not, Huns have unique, separate and specific culture and language. They should be represented by only themselves.

In Civ 5, Darius speaks Aramaic, the lingua franca of his empire. So yes, there is a civilization in the game represented by the lingua franca of his time.

Given that actual Hunnic speech is impossible to reconstruct, I don't see how they would actually get Hunnic culture in it per se. Some say the Huns were related to the Xiongnu, but the distance in time and geography is significant enough that it wouldn't be unreasonable to say they didn't speak the same language by the time of Attila.

It would make sense for Gothic to be the lingua franca, since Attila's army had many Goths in it. I imagine the Romans knew Gothic too, since Aetius (the Roman commander) convinced Gothic allies (Theodoric) to join him against Attila.

In my opinion, Gothic still makes a lot of sense. That's not to say it's the only tongue that would make sense, but it would be unique. The Goths are not, after all, going to be in Civ.

 

[CoolLizy]

I think technically they should be speaking a Mongolic language, as their ancestors were widely considered to be the Xiongnu by Central Asian sources at the time.

Were widely considering. That theory has long fallen out of favor. And in any case, by the time of Attila they most certainly were not speaking any form of Far East Asian.

 

[lolno]

Not really. There's more and more evidence now that the two are related.

 

[Krzowwh]

Were widely considering. That theory has long fallen out of favor.

You mean besides the fact that the form of Chinese at the time would have pronounced Xiongnu as Hiungnuo and that many Central Asian sources translated Xiongnu as Khun? Interesting.

And in any case, by the time of Attila they most certainly were not speaking any form of Far East Asian.

I don't really understand this point. Is this because of the hundreds of year of migrations?

 

[CoolLizy]

You mean besides the fact that the form of Chinese at the time would have pronounced Xiongnu as Hiungnuo and that many Central Asian sources translated Xiongnu as Khun? Interesting.

Just going from their page on Wikipedia:

Traditionally, historians have associated the Huns who appeared on the borders of Europe in the 4th century with the Xiongnu who migrated out of the Mongolia region some three hundred years before. Due to the conflict with Han China, the Northern branch of the Xiongnu had retreated north-westward, which may have led to a migration through Eurasia and consequently possible continuity of these nomads with the Huns. Although, this theory is still considered controversial and often heavily debated. The evidence for this has not been definitive (see below), and the debates have continued ever since Joseph de Guignes first suggested it in the 18th century. Due to the lack of definitive evidence, a school of modern scholarship in the West instead uses an ethnogenesis approach in explaining the Huns' origin.

More information can be found there and in their sources.

I don't really understand this point. Is this because of the hundreds of year of migrations?

It's because, quite simply, they didn't speak any form of Mongolian. From what precious little we know about the Hunnic language, it's generally believed to be a Turkic variant, or an early ancestor of the Slavic language. Even supposing that they still spoke the language of the Xiongnu after traveling all the way across Asia (if that is indeed their origin), the language of the Xiongnu itself is unknown.

 

[lolno]

Too bad Turkic itself is "Far East Asian". Their offspring and derivative polities in the West are the result of a Westward expansion, not the other way around.

Turkey speaks a Turkic language just as Nigeria speaks English.

From what precious little we know about the Hunnic language, it's generally believed to be a Turkic variant, or an early ancestor of the Slavic language.

It's actually "generally believed" to be Ketic or whatever the Xiongnu spoke, Turkic is a close contender, Iranic or Slavic are equally dismissible.

 

[CoolLizy]

Not really. There's more and more evidence now that the two are related.

I am unfamiliar with this evidence of which you speak, or with any recent change in consensus among scholars. Enlightenment would be appreciated if you happen to have a link on hand.

Too bad Turkic itself is "Far East Asian". Their offspring and derivative polities in the West are the result of a Westward expansion, not the other way around.

Again, this is debatable; otherwise the Altaic language family would be an accepted grouping.

 

[Guandao]

Once we get more of Attila's dialogue, we can prolly figure the language out.
Like his "nos" and his agreements

 

[Pascal Nouma]

According to dialogue box he supposed to say "The son of Mundzuk greets you." or as we all expect sth like "I am Atilla" but i hear neither Mundzuk nor Atilla. Did anyone heard he said any of those?

Chuvash language is the closest relative of Hunnic language so i hope he spoke Chuvash.

 

[Morningcalm]

How do you know Chuvash is the closest relative to Hunnic language?

 

[Nyanko]

How do you know Chuvash is the closest relative to Hunnic language?

Wiki says so?
Chuvash is already discounted if we look back in this thread far enough (p4);

I've contacted Victor of the website Chuvash.org about Attila's speech, and he says it's not Chuvash, and that to him it's no language at all.

Interesting...