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Final Mafia 2019 (Cold War Mafia)

Discussion in 'Mafia/NOTW' started by Montmorency, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. Montmorency

    Montmorency Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2019
    Messages:
    103
    I don't know yet if I can host, but might as well get the thread going.

    *48/24 hour rounds with 13-ish players starting next Monday or the Monday after sounds reasonable, depending on uptake

    *My recommendation is to ease into role stuff. MU has a lot of games so we might as well pull a stock setup: easy on the host, easy on the players. How does this setup from 2016's Ace Attorney Mafia sound? I would modify it to account for fewer players, but I like it because it's just cops and doctors for PRs (power roles), but with a twist. If we get 15 players we can do the full setup.

    Spoiler Setup :
    7 Vanilla Town
    Phoenix Wright - Cop. Receives a guilty result only on Matt or Manfred.
    Miles Edgeworth - Cop. Receives a guilty result only on Dahlia or Manfred.
    Dick Gumshoe - Doctor. Protects only from kills performed by Matt.
    Maya Fey - Doctor. Protects only from kills performed by Dahlia.

    Matt Enguarde - Basic goon
    Dahlia Hawthorne - Basic goon
    Manfred von Karma - Roleblocker. Cannot target same target consecutively. Cannot kill until Dahlia and Matt are both dead.
    The Phantom - Rolecop. Cannot kill until Dahlia and Matt are both dead.


    *CFC seems to have had a unique traditional mechanic in the form of support votes. I've never participated in a game with that mechanic.Let's revive it.
     
  2. Montmorency

    Montmorency Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2019
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    103
    OK, it's confirmed that I can host a game for CFC (and at least 4 people from the last game don't want to move to another venue).

    It will begin with an appropriate number of players, but either 11/25 or 12/2 are preferred as set dates. 8 PM EST unless someone needs an accommodation, 48/24 hour rounds.

    The target setup for 13 players is (I haven't rigorously simulated the balance, but it seems reasonable):

    Spoiler Rough Draft :
    Town (Town roles do not start aware of each other)
    7 vanilla (Canada, Mexico, UK, France, Italy, Japan, Australia)
    West Germany (FRG): Cop. Can only identify East Germany.
    South Korea (ROK): Cop. Can only identify North Korea.
    America (USA): Doctor. Can stop kills from anyone, but loses ability once FRG and ROK are dead. Is alerted when Mafia successfully identify a Town PR.

    Mafia
    East Germany (GDR): Goon.
    North Korea (DPRK): Goon.
    Soviet Union (SSSR): Rolecop. Cannot kill until both GDR and DPRK are dead. Can perform double scans N1 and N4.


    Spoiler Final :




    Signups:

    1. Timsup2nothin (Tim)
    2. Takhisis (Barto, Bart, Tak)
    3. Manasi
    4. JohannaK (Johanna, Jo)
    5. pzelda (Zelda)
    6. MaryKB (Mary)
    7. Snerk
    8. Omega124 (Omega)
    9. Seon
    10. Synsensa (Syn)
    11. RRRaskolnikov (Ras, Rask, Raskol, RRR)
    12. Visorslash (Visor)
    13. Yakostovian (Logic)

    1. @Timsup2nothin (Tim)
    2. @Takhisis (Barto, Bart, Tak)
    3. @Manasi
    4. @JohannaK (Johanna, Jo)
    5. @pzelda (Zelda)
    6. @MaryKB (Mary)
    7. @Snerk
    8. @Omega124 (Omega)
    9. @Seon
    10. @Synsensa (Syn)
    11. @RRRaskolnikov (Ras, Rask, Raskol, RRR)
    12. @Visorslash (Visor)
    13. @Yakostovian (Logic)

    Reserves:

    0. Topsecret
    1. Zack
    2. Choxorn
    3. Csargo


    GAME MILESTONES
    1. Game Information
    2. Day 1 Begins
    3. Night 1 Begins
    4. Day 2 Begins
    5. Night 2 Begins
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019 at 8:39 PM
  3. Zack

    Zack 99% hot gas

    Joined:
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    16,290
    Location:
    insert joke
    I can be a reserve, probably won't be available unless I die in the org game.

    Mildly interesting fact: I played in that Ace Attorney game.
     
    Montmorency likes this.
  4. Csargo

    Csargo Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
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    138
    Location:
    :/
    I'll be a reserve as well, would prefer to not play two games at once.
     
  5. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Veteran of 1000 psycic wars

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    36,494
    Location:
    Where the winds of limbo roar
    I'm in.
     
  6. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    44,861
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    up yours!
    For once I shall have the chance of playing.
     
  7. topsecret

    topsecret Spymaster

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2010
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    Male
    Location:
    Headquarters
    I would love to play but I will 100% be gone from December 3rd to December 8th. So I can join under the condition that a reserve takes over on the 3rd. :lol:

    And considering you may start on the 2nd, that pretty much counts me out. But I am willing to play other than that problem.
     
  8. Montmorency

    Montmorency Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2019
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    103
    All depends on how many signups and by when, but I don't have any problem starting the game later. What I foresee becoming an issue for some people is a game that, assuming Town is doing OK, will butt against Christmas if it starts on December 9. With 3-day rounds (night/day), a full game could go on up to 17 days (longer if doctor is very successful). If players don't have a problem with the potential a few of them will need to play on Christmas, then it's fine. Or if people who are willing to sub in after dying to take the slots of any people who have to drop by then could begin announcing that now...


    Also, anyone joining or thinking of joining, if you want to give feedback on the proposed setup and any dealbreakers, you are welcome. The setup is not necessarily final.
     
  9. JohannaK

    JohannaK Careless Whisperer

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2011
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    13,718
    Location:
    Last Christmas
    I'm 100% in. My heart warms to see Zack in these withered pastures of CFC once more. I dream of Pizzaguy's return.
     
  10. pzelda

    pzelda Warlord

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    Male
    In, I can start anytime. A
    plz, could you send me an email about the game starting? I can leave you my address in PMs. Or you can try to hit me on discord, if you have an account.
     
  11. pzelda

    pzelda Warlord

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    Regarding the setup. Your changes are interesting and I think that with an exception of including a full doc, who might swing the game in town's favour, very balanced.
    I think that making both cops able to recognize both minions of Russia would make the role more enjoyable. I would make one of them only active at odd nights and one at even ones. Ofc this would maka the game more townsided than it is rn.

    I probably would try to replace Doctor with a RB.

    Also I feel like wolves need to buff a little. They need something to counter claims. Redirector (or one shot redirector, because the role is considered op) could be just that. Or mafia roleblocker. Or make one goon one shot rb and the other one shot redirector.
    So something like

    7 vanilla townies
    1 odd night cop
    1 even night cop
    1 roleblocker
    1 godfather

    1 1-shot redirector
    1 1-shot roleblocker
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  12. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Veteran of 1000 psycic wars

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    Where the winds of limbo roar
    If it starts late and butts into Christmas, I'm still in...and if I'm dead I'll fill in for someone so they can Christmas out if they need to.
     
  13. MaryKB

    MaryKB Vice Princess Supporter

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  14. Montmorency

    Montmorency Warlord

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    These are all plausible suggestions, but let me say that the setup will not be made more complicated, only less if necessary. I don't want to intimidate inexperienced players. It will have to remain some arrangement of cops and robbers doctors.

    I haven't run mathematical simulations for balance but the basic concept of my setup is:

    1. All the investigative/protective roles have low odds of success on rand but increase as the player pool shrinks

    2. The US team wants to keep the cop roles alive as long as possible to both give them a shot at finding their needle in the haystack and to keep the US-player's protective ability in operation.
    2.a. To clarify the notification upon allies being scanned, it works like this (example): GDR scans FRG N2. USA receives host message that "Opfor has identified allied units." This information doesn't do anything on its own, but since the USA is all about intel-gathering I want to give them advance notice that they need to be focused on finding and protecting their assets the coming night. What happens next all depends on the insight and analytic skills of the USA player.
    3. The USSR player doesn't need its teammates as much as the US player needs theirs, but as a scum team has incentive to root out the opposing investigative roles to keep its flank secure and eliminate barriers to its killing power.
    3.a. (As a balance tweak I could consider allowing USSR to continue scanning for USA even if its goons are dead.)

    4. Because roles become more effective as the player pool shrinks with kills and lynches, it's a race to neutralize the other sides capacity to neutralize you. Since USSR has double scans on N1 and N4, in balance it has the opportunity to either gain a quick advantage with good early choices, or to recover if the team isn't doing well into the endgame. Meanwhile, the USA protection can become very powerful if not removed by the endgame; but that's by design, since the Town position is meant to grow stronger over time unless actively defeated by Mafia. If the Mafia can't get it together to kill or lynch USA or alternatively both FRG and ROK by Day 5 or 6, I want them to have a challenge in overcoming that Town advantage.

    So I think the setup is fairly balanced overall, with a special bonus to Town if they can protect their roles to the endgame.
     
  15. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    A laudable suggestion. +1

    Also, since Syn-chan doesn't allow me to post in his user profile for some reason:
    investigative rôles with no limitations kill the game and are an even worse crutch than Great Wonders in civ games.

    I.e. the mafia can play a perfect game and still be broken by two lucky results in a row.
    A cop getting a true positive result during N1 can kill the game there and then, or otherwise help establish an unbreakable town core.
     
  16. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    Feb 28, 2006
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    Honolulu
    Same as Zack
     
  17. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    *makes mental note to bribe Visor, draw mafia and kill choxorn and Zack by N2 at the latest*
     
  18. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    Honolulu
    Seems kinda difficult to kill us faster than in two nights
     
  19. Yakostovian

    Yakostovian Prince

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    331
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    WA, USA
    Put me in reserves
     
    topsecret likes this.
  20. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

    Joined:
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    up yours!
    Lynch D1, kill N1, done.
     

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