Final Ruling

[Goonie]

Provo, I tried to return your PM, but your box was full.

 

[Provolution]

Goonie, it is deleted now, and I got into the save, see the City of God plan.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

IMO, we should try to play by the rules. And no sneaky attack or exploitive tactics please. They were punished enough. Trying to use their situation by exploiting it would be not a good idea.

NO THEY NEED MORE PUNISHMENT! This is the time for Fanatica to strike back upon Brasil! They spied on us, they bothered us during the Eternal Alliance, and most of all: I worked on the alliance for 6 months, and that damn joker ruined it all. WE MUST ATTACK, OR WE WILL LOSE THIS GAME!

Emp: you sneaky bastard !!
Where did you get this plan ?

Ok, ok, it is really Rik's plan, but he was too slow

 

[gert-janl]

I am with akots here. These plans are just exploitations of the current situation. It is allowed, but definitely not fair. Let's wait at least until the 20 turns of gpt payments finished. The final ruling is, in my opinion, already a huge punishment to C3B.

We must play honestly. Think of the situation that the other 2 teams hear that we invaded C3B when they weren't allowed to defend themselves. We would get the lowest reputation ever, and will have lots of problems in the next round; if we even get there.

Let's keep our reputation in mind. The plans suggested so far are going straight into my conscience, and I can never accept this cheating/exploiting from our part. Let's keep the game alive!

Of course we can build up an army with the gpt we receive, but we should never benefit from the fact that we may declare war, and they may not!

 

[Goonie]

They are allowed to defend themselves!

The rule is set up so that C3B can't declare war to stop paying, but if we declare war then that is our choice and they are allowed to attack us.

I think all the other teams would completely understand if we were to destroy C3B without mercy.

 

[gert-janl]

Of course they can defend themselves, but they can't declare war on us if they see we are preparing an invasion, because of the gpt deal.

So practically seen they can't defend themselves properly. This is in my opinion not fair and therefore we shouldn't lower ourselves this kind of 'legal' cheating by benefitting from this situation.

 

[Matrix]

About the ruling: I'm very glad this is over. I've stopped reading all the discussions a few days ago, because I was just fed up with the whole situation (especially when things got out of hand).

But whatever the ruling, Joker surely spoilt the entire game. The outcome of the battle between C3B and CFC (which seems unavoidable) will be very much influenced by C3B's preknowledge and their repayment. A damn shame if you ask me. Knowing this, I'll have a hard time regaining joy in the ISDG.

 

[rcoutme]

IMHO, it would be an unfair restriction on us to prohibit us from declaring war. If we land on their territory, they have the option to tell us, "Get out or declare war!" That is us declaring war, not them. I am not taking a stand for the sneak attack, I am only giving my opinion that a declaration of war on turn 17 or 18 is NOT a violation of any implied ruling.

More correctly, it is like them having a game-enforced gpt agreement that only we get to break. If we were AI, we would certainly be allowed to break that gpt agreement.

As to the questions about what constitutes a DoW: 1. If you fail to leave. 2. If you pillage. 3. If you attack a unit 4. If you destroy a colony.

Note: you may pillage all the roads you want that are not in sovereign territory even if they connect to resources and cities (I love doing this to AI).

 

[gert-janl]

That's what I said: it's not a violation of the ruling, but it's a violation of the borders of my conscience.

 

[Matrix]

Good point, gert-janl. One of the rules of this ISDG is to play "in the spirit of the game". I suggest to wait until the 20 turns are over to declare war.

 

[Yndy]

I think we should use the cash we're going to receive to increase our reasearch rate and develop our cities. Attacking C3B would still mean we'll have to fight against Immortals when we are not prepared to fight immortals. Yes, maybe we should jumpstart our golden age but not commit all forces to an all out attack.

 

[akots]

@Yndy. It would be really nice if you are more active here! The "common sense" tactics seems to have been running on low support recently.

 

[Provolution]

"Common sense" may actually be mediocre, and Brazuca has a clear lead.

 

[gert-janl]

I think we should use the cash we're going to receive to increase our reasearch rate and develop our cities. Attacking C3B would still mean we'll have to fight against Immortals when we are not prepared to fight immortals. Yes, maybe we should jumpstart our golden age but not commit all forces to an all out attack.

I slightly disagree. Of course we should use the money we get from C3B for military purposes. We should use this UN ruling to the max (that is: to the max of playing fair ). We should continue building our mainland with a little more emphasis on building our military to prepare for a war with C3B, since this war will be unavoidable. We already agreed on that before this whole Joker-case. Continueing in the spirit of the game (as Matrix quoted nicely) would mean in this case to prepare for the war we were preparing already for. As long as we play it fair!

 

[Provolution]

Gert-Jani , you just faced Embryonism, and I am glad you did not pick the easy dark path

 

[Yndy]

@Yndy. It would be really nice if you are more active here! The "common sense" tactics seems to have been running on low support recently.

I'm 100% behind you akots but unfortunately I'm short of time. The recent comeback is due to the fact that I'm too stressed out to work and need something to distract me. It'll be over soon so it'll still be on your shoulders

 

[Provolution]

LOL Yndy, you certainly feel welcome with new ideas here

 

[gert-janl]

Gert-Jani , you just faced Embryonism, and I am glad you did not pick the easy dark path

So the dark path is the path everyone walks who don't agree with you?

And you believe you are on the illuminated path?

Being thát convinced of yourself makes you an embryo yourself, in my opinion.

 

[Provolution]

Gert Jani

You know as well as me you never run an attrition warfare in CIV3 with less land against a growing and stronger opponent on more land. But call me an Embryon if you prefer.
I am 100 % convinced there will be a war, and you can just let our units like Ancient Cavalry and so on become obsolete.

 

[Yndy]

I am 100 % convinced there will be a war, and you can just let our units like Ancient Cavalry and so on become obsolete.

I'd rather have 8 ACs go obsolete if so do 20 Immortals.