Finalizing 1.13

[Leoreth]

I should never have bought CiV and instead transfered the money to you, Rhye, and all the others who did parts of this fantastic thing.

(Please don't send me money though.)

Everything else noted.

 

[Leoreth]

I fully concur with both of these points. The idea behind the new system with regards to resourse trading makes sense, but the AI is way too reluctant to trade now - even vassals demands 3-4-5 resourses for 1 non-strategic one of theirs. Please take a look at this and at least ease it up a bit, that would be great.

To make sure I have this feedback in the right context, I recently adjusted the AI resource value already, have you tried that already?

 

[Ani Taneen]

I also experience Rome founding confu way too often all of a sudden, it happened in all of my last 4 games where I wasn't involved in either area. Did China get nerfed somehow lately, or what could be the cause of them being unable to be first to get confu? It is both bad for gameplay and immersion, maybe they need slightly better tech speed in the start or be more focused on getting the corrects techs, I don't know.

I concur with this....

 

[Vectors]

I think the AI should value strategic resources more, an iron when the AI has neither iron nor copper before gunpowder should be valued at least as much as a luxury resource

 

[Leoreth]

Just to get a quick handle on this, I ran ten Rome starts and China had already founded Confucianism in all of them.

However I noticed that China definitely was struggling, I'll look into ways of buffing them for a bit without throwing off the late game balance.

 

[Xfactor]

I also noticed the invisible city bug with a recent iran start, their capital was there but appeared as razed and invisible, it still functions normally but you cant select it and micro manage it, it can train units which appear exactly on the city spot as normal, same for buildings.



I also want to add a thing that has been bugging me for a long time about the inca first UHV, the andean road part, its easy as hell and it says Build roads on the andean coast which cover your territory , there is a tile right on the corn where columbians spawn, which is a bit tricky and you almost never cover it with your cultural borders if you dont settle a city there and it counts towards the UHV even if you build roads there but dont culturally cover it that tile automaticly fails the UHV. This bug has been there for a while now and on my recent inca start i remembered about it, its pretty confusing if you dont know that you have to cover all the andean coast with territory and roads to acomplish the goal and it may just be a tooltip error in the UHV.

 

[Leoreth]

I also want to add a thing that has been bugging me for a long time about the inca first UHV, the andean road part, its easy as hell and it says Build roads on the andean coast which cover your territory , there is a tile right on the corn where columbians spawn, which is a bit tricky and you almost never cover it with your cultural borders if you dont settle a city there and it counts towards the UHV even if you build roads there but dont culturally cover it that tile automaticly fails the UHV. This bug has been there for a while now and on my recent inca start i remembered about it, its pretty confusing if you dont know that you have to cover all the andean coast with territory and roads to acomplish the goal and it may just be a tooltip error in the UHV.

I wasn't aware of that, noted. I suspect a tooltip error.

 

[Temujin8k]

I also experience Rome founding confu way too often all of a sudden, it happened in all of my last 4 games where I wasn't involved in either area. Did China get nerfed somehow lately, or what could be the cause of them being unable to be first to get confu? It is both bad for gameplay and immersion, maybe they need slightly better tech speed in the start or be more focused on getting the corrects techs, I don't know.

In my experience, whenever I play as China, I lose Confucianism to Rome if I cannot finish Mathematics by the Roman spawn, since Rome spawns with Mathematics. That's a hard feat for a human at Regent and higher difficulties, I guess, and it's somewhat hard for the AI to achieve too.

 

[Shadow Warlord]

In my experience, whenever I play as China, I lose Confucianism to Rome if I cannot finish Mathematics by the Roman spawn, since Rome spawns with Mathematics. That's a hard feat for a human at Regent and higher difficulties, I guess, and it's somewhat hard for the AI to achieve too.

It isn't too hard to get Mathematics before Rome on regent. I normally go hunting-animal husbandry-writing-mathematics. With how little you can build at the beginning, that gives you plenty of time to build an extra settler for a second city, plus workers for improvements. The main thing with early China is you need to build taixues and max scientists out whenever you can. I find i need two GS: one for alphabet to facilitate tech trading, one for compass to ensure it doesn't get researched by someone else.

This is, of course, without using the Pantheon China strategy.

 

[Fresol]

Indonesian historical goal 1 counts population in a different way(city population cubed, as shown in the demographics) which I think is unnecessary.

 

[youtien]

I concur with this....

Taoism is bigger problem. I saw Egyptian found Taoism last game, and I was China.

 

[Leoreth]

Indonesian historical goal 1 counts population in a different way(city population cubed, as shown in the demographics) which I think is unnecessary.

It uses "real" city population, which is exponential to population points. I think this is in your interest because you want to win by growing your cities larger instead of expansion.

 

[Temujin8k]

It isn't too hard to get Mathematics before Rome on regent. I normally go hunting-animal husbandry-writing-mathematics. With how little you can build at the beginning, that gives you plenty of time to build an extra settler for a second city, plus workers for improvements. The main thing with early China is you need to build taixues and max scientists out whenever you can. I find i need two GS: one for alphabet to facilitate tech trading, one for compass to ensure it doesn't get researched by someone else.

This is, of course, without using the Pantheon China strategy.

I've been actually doing that in the past, lol. I've beelined to Mathematics directly many times now. However, the consequence is that I become less advanced technologically because I only have fewer technologies, and trading techs is sooo hard because the AI often asks for a lot in exchange

 

[Xfactor]

I wanna ask, why recently on lower difficulties europe or basicly anyone gets conqurers so late like 1600+ , i played 3 games on regent to test stuff out and its strange to me that eu civs dont come to the new world till 1600 . That for instance makes the third inca UHV almost undoable becouse there are cliffs on the Andes that block passage till conqurers, and the third UHV is till 1700s.

I remember in previous versions that europe civs espescially portugal/spain/england getting conqurers in 1450-1500 which is normal and that made aztec temple uhv hard becouse of the religion spread but still managable, now i basicly get muskets with aztec before the conqurers which is absurd

 

[Shadow Warlord]

I wanna ask, why recently on lower difficulties europe or basicly anyone gets conqurers so late like 1600+ , i played 3 games on regent to test stuff out and its strange to me that eu civs dont come to the new world till 1600 . That for instance makes the third inca UHV almost undoable becouse there are cliffs on the Andes that block passage till conqurers, and the third UHV is till 1700s.

I remember in previous versions that europe civs espescially portugal/spain/england getting conqurers in 1450-1500 which is normal and that made aztec temple uhv hard becouse of the religion spread but still managable, now i basicly get muskets with aztec before the conqurers which is absurd

It's part of the tech spread penalty i believe, which made teching slow across all civs. I think Leoreth just removed it gorcthe AI, but maybe it can be reduced a little for the Human player? With the extra time it takes to tech there's some uhvs that are mych harder now than they were before.

 

[ales_]

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Does this mean we're getting an Indonesian guide soon?

 

[Leoreth]

It's part of the tech spread penalty i believe, which made teching slow across all civs. I think Leoreth just removed it gorcthe AI, but maybe it can be reduced a little for the Human player? With the extra time it takes to tech there's some uhvs that are mych harder now than they were before.

Yeah, I'm considering that as well.

 

[Shadow Warlord]

Yeah, I'm considering that as well.

It's worth a look. On Regent/Normal, most renaissance techs cost around 20 turns to research even when you have a civ like France or England fully developed in their core, which is probably too long for Normal speed. In most of my games i have yet to see any civ get rifling before Prussia spawns.

 

[Fresol]

Does this mean we're getting an Indonesian guide soon?

Assuming that I can finish this time-consuming game, yes.

 

[Tigranes]

I was really hoping that Orthodox Ethiopia will not be required to found a Catholicism for her UHV in 1.3... But I guess the entire religious overhaul is still not high on the agenda...