Finally a winning position at emperor - Need some advice to get me over the line

[Shafi]

Hey guys,

Game settings - Emperor / Normal / Standard / Fractal / Darius of Persia.

After messing around at emperor over the past couple of weeks, i seem to have this game in my control, but i just wanted some advice, given the game position should i attack my neighbour Pericles take him out and then look for a space win or should i just turtle up and head for space now?

BTW - A summary of what happened so far, I killed of Hammy & Justinian at the start with an Immortal rush and took their capitals, lots of cottagable land so i put financial to good use. I won the lib race and took steel from it with the thoughts of a military offensive on my greek neighbour, now i am wondering if i should bother with that or just focus on space.

It's not a question of whether i can take Pericles, is that the best way forward?

Some screenies attached for your referance and a game save too.

Any / all critisicsm / suggestions with regard to the attached save welcome.

 

[CornPlanter]

Just a side note: if you had a rule to *never* give up, you'd be surprised how many unwinnable positions are actually quite winnable. And if you still dont manage to win, playing it till the end gives you way better understanding of what mistakes were done earlier, what should have been done instead, etc. <--- from personal experience, I too play emperor now, and this self imposed rule increased learning & percentage of winning drastically.

In your current situation, I'd cannonrape Pericles right away, he looks like a bit behind in tech and you got steel already, no reason to wait. But I play epic speed only. Not sure how it works with normal. And yes, from what I see here it looks like you are in a sure win position. My two cents

 

[Fleme]

Looks like a map for easy Domination/Conquest win. Make your way to cuirassiers and take Pericles with them and as you progress, go towards rifling for cavalries. Seeing the power ratins and who you're up against a warring approach seems valid.

Sure, you have enough capacity both research and production wise to turtle it to space but you'll get a much higher score if you go for a renaissance/early industrial domination/conquest and again, the power ratings beg you to do so.

 

[dirtyparrot]

I'll look at the save later today, but you should really settle that gold/iron/rice/FP pronto.

 

[Shafi]

Just a side note: if you had a rule to *never* give up, you'd be surprised how many unwinnable positions are actually quite winnable. And if you still dont manage to win, playing it till the end gives you way better understanding of what mistakes were done earlier, what should have been done instead, etc. <--- from personal experience, I too play emperor now, and this self imposed rule increased learning & percentage of winning drastically.

I agree. And i am extremely guilty of this, i tend to give up far too easily, i donno ... just too lazy i guess, and i think i spent too much time at the lower difficulty levels. But some solid advice for sure. In fact one of the reasons i started the HUI series was so that i cant give up half way since it would be online.

In your current situation, I'd cannonrape Pericles right away, he looks like a bit behind in tech and you got steel already, no reason to wait. But I play epic speed only. Not sure how it works with normal. And yes, from what I see here it looks like you are in a sure win position. My two cents

No it can definitely be done on Normal as well, Pericles is way behind and i can take him with Cannons + Muskets while i tech towards Rifles. But if i do take him i might as well head for conquest / Domination i guess ...

 

[CornPlanter]

But if i do take him i might as well head for conquest / Domination i guess ...

Thats what I had in mind. I see no real opposition to the concept of united world under Persian rule here

 

[Shafi]

Looks like a map for easy Domination/Conquest win. Make your way to cuirassiers and take Pericles with them and as you progress, go towards rifling for cavalries. Seeing the power ratins and who you're up against a warring approach seems valid.

Sure, you have enough capacity both research and production wise to turtle it to space but you'll get a much higher score if you go for a renaissance/early industrial domination/conquest and again, the power ratings beg you to do so.

I am actually a litlle worried about Sury, but since i have a tech lead i guess i'll take the military route instead of being a wuss. But i must say if military my thoughts were Cannons + Muskets against Pericles then Cannons + Rifles / Infantry for the rest. Do you think using mounted units would be better? Any reason you suggested it?

BTW - Thank you for the feedback.

 

[Fleme]

Mounted units get the job done faster and with a tech edge city defenses won't be much of an issue. Sure, you can trudge away with musket/cannon but that's a lot slower than a proper mounted assault.

If there are some strongholds too heavily fortified to tackle, just revolt them with spies and even at low odds, flanking cuirassiers/cavalries have a good chance of surviving. Later on, if you head down the science tree, airships make for excellent support to cavalries even though you might not think so.

Anything that tickles your fancy though - I'm personally a cannon fan myself but have been getting into the whole mounted/spy army thing lately and it's worked just fine and wars are generally over twice as fast as they are with 1-move armies.

 

[UncleJJ]

Mounted units get the job done faster and with a tech edge city defenses won't be much of an issue. Sure, you can trudge away with musket/cannon but that's a lot slower than a proper mounted assault.

If there are some strongholds too heavily fortified to tackle, just revolt them with spies and even at low odds, flanking cuirassiers/cavalries have a good chance of surviving. Later on, if you head down the science tree, airships make for excellent support to cavalries even though you might not think so.

Anything that tickles your fancy though - I'm personally a cannon fan myself but have been getting into the whole mounted/spy army thing lately and it's worked just fine and wars are generally over twice as fast as they are with 1-move armies.

It depends what troops he has now. If he has to research cuirassiers, build stables and the mounted troops plus build jails and raise EPs and build spies and whatever else it takes to conquer them with a 2-move army ... then it is probably a lot faster (in game turns) and more reliable to go with cannons (build/whip) and muskets (drafted) that can be built now. Cannons have the advantage that older troops can tag along and help out, even obsolete stuff like axemen and pikes can help with finishing off damaged troops. Later these troops can be upgrade to grenadiers and riflemen providing a well promoted core to spearhead a vast drafted army.

If there is coastline then a 1-move army (starting with cannons and muskets) with galleons and frigates moves just as quickly as 2-move army without. Ships can move 4 or 5 moves per turn through enemy culture compared to 2 turns for mounted (alongroadsonly) and damaged troops can heal on the ships (and still move) or in port and be quickly shipped to the frontline.

 

[Fleme]

I figured that with all the immortals he has garrisoning his cities he should atleast have a foundation for a mounted army. I'm in no way against a 1-move army and there's nothing the average AI can throw at you when you have a well-rounded cannon-supported stack but the bottom line is that if there's an option to blitz a technologically inferior enemy, a mounted late renaissance army will get the job done faster than a slow army. I must say I've never used navy to attack an enemy on my continent so I won't comment on that but all in all it seems like wasted hammers to me.

 

[pi-r8]

Looks like you're way ahead in everything. Just pick your favorite victory condition and go for it, I don't see how anything could go wrong.

 

[vicawoo]

Looks like you're way ahead in everything. Just pick your favorite victory condition and go for it, I don't see how anything could go wrong.

What if his favorite victory condition is time victory?

 

[UncleJJ]

JFleme: Then you should consider the advantages of a small fleet. Even if you go for a 2-move cuirassier based approach, 2 or 3 frigates will be able to remove defences from any coastal city before the mounted stack gets there, so no need for unreliable spies for those cities.

A few galleons means a small stack of muskets and cannons can leapfrog down the coast and pick off a weak city before the main mounted stack could get there. This is particularly the case if there is difficult terrain. In enemy culture mounted only move 2 tiles on flat land, if the enemy has hills or woods then they only move 1. A city at the end of land projecting into the sea can take several turns to reach with a mounted stack if there are hills and woods / jungle in the way. Two galleons can land 2 cannons and 4 muskets on one turn and they take the city the next turn, the frigates having reduced the defences over both turns.

The fleet also allows you to protect your seafood against enemy ships. Few things are more annoying than an enemy trireme pillaging your seafood in the Renaissance while your army takes his capital

 

[siggboy]

Just my two cents on this: looks like a runaway game to me, and I agree with those who said that conquest/domination would be best.

I'm personally partial to a spy/curassier approach when it comes to conquering with a tech lead. Run only espionage for a few turns while building spies and curassiers, then turn back on research while plowing through the enemy's cities.

Go with cannons only if getting to curies will take you too long.

You should also not forget to settle the rest of the spots in your mainland.

 

[UWHabs]

I find the problem with games like this is that once PP is in, cottages get very strong, so often by the time I've built a rifle army, I already have infantry. Okay, I guess that's a good problem to have...


Otherwise, if you have the tech for Cannons early, and you can get them while nobody else is even thinking about gunpowder yet, just go for it. War is more fun than space. Then your only choice is whether you just cap people on your way to the win or whether you actually conquer them all and develop the captured cities.

 

[pi-r8]

What if his favorite victory condition is time victory?

I have to admit, I've never actually tried to win a time victory. Seems like it'd just be a matter of periodically razing the capital of anyone who was about to win space/culture.

 

[Shafi]

What if his favorite victory condition is time victory?

I'm not a total idiot you know ...

BTW - I decided to go Canons + Muskets against Greece, and have taken their first city not much resistance or even a counter attack. I will head for their capital next.

I took this path since i had teched more in line with this if i was going to go for a military conquest, i had been building muskets + already had steel so i thought it would be quicker.

Plan is to actually see if i can get everyone to cap and head for conquest. I am teching towards Rifles as well so maybe my next target my taste some rifles and like somebody said since this is normal speed soon it would be infantry i guess.

My plan is after i take Pericles, we would go after Sury the most dangerous in my opinion), then AC and then Pacal (my buddy ) finally.

Theres one other minor detail, Pacal has the AP, do you thnk i should take him first to aoid having the AP vote mess up my plans??? Or should i just defy any resolutions i dont like and stick to my plan?

The reason i posted this game is that i was pretty nervous since my last game on emperor was looking good for a win too, until Ragnar landed on my continent out of nowhere and handed my ass to me

 

[Fleme]

If your nation is mostly in his religion then you won't have any trouble with the resolutions, given that he doesn't meddle with your wars before you actually reach him. If he really is your last enemy, then a single defy won't change things at all.

 

[UncleJJ]

I'm not a total idiot you know ...

BTW - I decided to go Canons + Muskets against Greece, and have taken their first city not much resistance or even a counter attack. I will head for their capital next.

I took this path since i had teched more in line with this if i was going to go for a military conquest, i had been building muskets + already had steel so i thought it would be quicker.

Plan is to actually see if i can get everyone to cap and head for conquest. I am teching towards Rifles as well so maybe my next target my taste some rifles and like somebody said since this is normal speed soon it would be infantry i guess.

Good move . I hope you mean you're drafting muskets rather than "building" them as you said. Muskets are not good value against longbows or macemen in hammer terms (assuming you have those techs). Where they shine is when you draft them, 1 pop for a multi purpose unit worth 80 hammers is a good deal in most cities that can take the happiness knock. You should always build one or two muskets as there is an event that can give a golden age linked to the first muskets but after that build / whip cannons and draft the muskets.

Theres one other minor detail, Pacal has the AP, do you thnk i should take him first to aoid having the AP vote mess up my plans??? Or should i just defy any resolutions i dont like and stick to my plan?

It depends on the AP resolution. Usually if you're at war, vote "No", and if you lose simply accept the peace, heal up and reposition your forces then declare again 10 turns later. If the resolution is to return a city that can be harder to take... but if you're at war then you won't get that resolution you'll get the stop the war one . So if you want to "control" the AP resolutions just be at war with another member and then the worst resolution will be a "stop the war" one. Once you have captured enough cities with the AP religion and built up your pop then you can win the AP vote by just by voting "No". I seldom have need of defying an AP resolution.

 

[Berkobob]

Seems to be wrapped up at this point but maybe its worth grabbing Mil Science before heading for rifles? Grens will be useful even if one of your opponents manages to survive to rifles and you can use your GG's to boost production in your best military cities?

Oh, and I probably wouldnt build any more buildings with hammers.

Hoping to see a conquest victory posted here shortly.