Finished my first culture victory

I just finished my first science victory, not because I'm new, but because I never cared about a system that doesnt add any value to my empire except "score for winning".

I must say, I had a lot of fun managing the production of spaceports and timing great people to rush projects. Much more than I expected. It's so fun, I find it even more than before a pitty that it's worthless for your empire.

I did one out of curiosity, but I doubt Ill ever do one again. Going for space projects doesnt benefit your empire at all, what a sad waste.
 
<random sarcasm>

If you dont feel that having more science per turn makes your empire more powerful than having more tourism per turn, I don know how to even explain it to you.

Well, Ill try.

Tourism per turn means having more points in a counter.
Science per turn means, better units, more powerful armies which result in more cities, more wonders, buildings with better yields, or to sum up, better everything.
Even if we would change the spaceports and spaceparts for another counter, that would still be ok. Im not talking about the final victory condition, but about the usefulness of the "resource" for your empire.
 
If you dont feel that having more science per turn makes your empire more powerful than having more tourism per turn, I don know how to even explain it to you.
Science per turn doesn't get you to science victory; its a resource that moves you up the tech tree. Culture per turn doesn't get you to culture victory; its a resource that moves you up the civics tree. Tourism is the end mechanic of the culture victory, it doesn't add to your empire. Spaceports are the end mechanic of the science victory, it doesn't add to your empire.
 
Science per turn doesn't get you to science victory; its a resource that moves you up the tech tree. Culture per turn doesn't get you to culture victory; its a resource that moves you up the civics tree. Tourism is the end mechanic of the culture victory, it doesn't add to your empire. Spaceports are the end mechanic of the science victory, it doesn't add to your empire.

Not a bad argument, I like it better with that idea in mind.
I still think they are far apart tho for several reasons. For example:

- There are a lot of more things to improve tourism than "spaceports", from buildings to policy cards, to terrain improvements, and so on. Thats because teh science victory counterpart uses those things for increasing science, the useful thing, not spaceport building.
- Several civs have big tourism bonuses. I just cant like those civs. No civ has "spaceport bonuses", they have science bonuses which makes them stronger.
- If having a tourism victory in mind, many games start planning it from the first city and city locations. In most cases you start very early to do things to improve your tourism, not culture, which again, beneifts your empire 0.

Im sure there are more. But you see, I like your argument, spaceport=tourism comparation is not a bad one, but not even close to be accurate. Spaceports is much more like a finishing touch of the science victory, and science the real improtant thing, than tourism vs culture.
 
Which civs have tourism bonuses? I'm not super familiar with all the leaders, but I kind of have a feeling that the bonuses are related to great person or great works which also add to culture and can be used in non CV games just like a science based leader's benefits can still be used in non SV games.
 
Which civs have tourism bonuses? I'm not super familiar with all the leaders, but I kind of have a feeling that the bonuses are related to great person or great works which also add to culture and can be used in non CV games just like a science based leader's benefits can still be used in non SV games.
In the wiki they dont appear in the same page so I cant use ctrl-F, so Ill just say 2 that come to mind:

America: unique building bonus is +100% tourism
France: Double tourism from Wonders.

There are also a few with bonuses to appeal and no other bonuses from appeal (for example I dont count australia bc they get bonuses from appeal), which I count as a tourism bonus.
 
Im sure there are more. But you see, I like your argument, spaceport=tourism comparation is not a bad one, but not even close to be accurate. Spaceports is much more like a finishing touch of the science victory, and science the real improtant thing, than tourism vs culture.
I think his comparison is by and large correct. I believe this is reflected in the way in which we arrive at the science vs. cultural victories.

-Science is science, cold calculated, and repeatable. If it works, it works. You can talk about how the science is faulty, doesn't really work, etc...right up to the point when the last project finishes and the Mars colony is established.
-Tourism is based in trying to draw fickle humans to your civ which requires a myriad of lures to suit different personalities and/or cultures. Some like wonders, others theatre, others Chemamulls.

Early science IMO is very important to rush cavalry and tanks for, ahem, defense. Science then becomes less relevant than late game culture. Corps, armies, T2 and T3 government buildings are really quite remarkable relative to other civs that don't have them. Natural history is a great civic for both warmongering (zoos) and for cultural victory (archeologists). Late game technologies are by and large useless relative to a cultural victory whereas late game civics are quite useful to achieving a science victory.
 
The Moon landing provides culture, and building a spaceport boosts a civic, so it's not completely detached. Yes, I doubt doing 2 projects for a culture victory will ever be a thing but maybe in a more challenging game it could be a fallback.

I'd also argue science per turn is much more essential to a science victory than culture per turn to a culture victory. In fact, I'd even argue CPT is hardly the most important thing in a culture victory, and sometimes barely needed at all since you don't need to finish the civics tree.... or anything close. Hell, I'd even argue that science is more important for a culture victory due to more wonder unlocks besides the commonly cited flight/computers techs.

But I'm not really sure why we have to argue all this theory when we already have Civ 5 which has succeeded in incorporating all these mechanics together. Is it necessary? No, but why reinvent the wheel?
 
-Science is science, cold calculated, and repeatable. If it works, it works. You can talk about how the science is faulty, doesn't really work, etc...right up to the point when the last project finishes and the Mars colony is established.

I'm somewhat disappointed that the core idea for victory in Civ 1 has not been carried forward in recent editions.

Those who played Civ 1 may recall that launching your space ship first did not win the game. The game was won when your space ship arrived at Alpha Centauri. You had to decide how many engines to build for your space ship, and if you launched a slow ship (which you could do more quickly than a fast ship), another Civ could still beat you with a faster ship launched later.

I'm not arguing that those specific rules should have been brought forward, as you can min-max the decision about the speed ship to build based on your current production to assess the fastest possible arrival time. But changing the space race to building a pre-determined set of projects seems a step backwards. It's a less interactive form of space race, instead of a more evolved and interesting victory objective.
 
I have a vague recollection of ending my game with what must have been a domination victory somewhere in Mexico with Civ1. About all I recall particularly vividly was the technology tree, how complicated it was, and probably how little I understood about it.

I think you do have choices relative to the speed of the victory:
-You can rush industrialization, build a factory, then build Rhur Valley all (theoretically) before reaching the rocketry tech.
-You can buy a spaceport.
-You can concentrate trade routes.
-You can build industrial zones around the city you have in mind for your spaceport.
-You can just run campus projects and play it as you go.
- You can concentrate on culture and shoot for a T3 government plaza (Royal Society) ASAP.
- You can concentrate on culture and shoot for a T3 government plaza (Royal Society) ASAP in combination with any of the above.

The only thing I think you can’t do is run a bunch of propaganda on a medieval printing press, convince the world of your cultural superiority, and become the world emperor :D.
 
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