1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Finnvitka, the Fantasy Mod

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Medieval: Conquests' started by Kailric, Apr 30, 2014.

  1. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    Messages:
    3,095
    Location:
    Marooned, Y'isrumgone
    I have been reading about the Vikings, about their gods, their sagas, and their beliefs. It has reminded me of another type of mod I would love to work on some day and that is a Fantasy mod. The reason being, with Fantasy, there is no limits to what you can do. As a programmer that is exciting as you can really let your imagination run wild and program all kinds of cool commands, effects, and magical abilities.

    What I have been inspired by the Vikings is a setting were all the Gods (Greek, Viking, etc) are real (I know they are all real, just saying :)), all the magical beings mention in their folk lore are real also. Such as the Viking Álfar or elves, the Dvergar or dwarves, and the Thyrs or trolls. Magic is real as well, and Sorcery, such as the a Finnish women's spell casting ability. Hence the term Finnvitka, which means 'to practice magic in a distinctly Finnish manner'. Even the Christian God is real also (I know He is real, just saying :)), and His priest can cast out demons and bestow blessing on the faithful.

    All the art files are already there, all we would need to do is write the cool stuff. I know there is that other fantasy mod (FFH), but ours would be based on Col and the M:C mod, and thus rock even more.:yup:

    I wanted to share that with you guys so you can think on it as well. There is a bunch to do with M:C still yet, so I can't start this any time soon, but in the mean time I'll be "charge'n my fireball"!:devil:
     
  2. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,354
    Sounds interesting. However we shouldn't copy the magic system from FFH. I don't feel like it is working well.

    We could research civics (spells) or make a new XML for spells. Civics and promotions could be active spell effects. We would then likely need a counter for promotions to make an effect last X turns. That could be useful for non-magical effects too, like "tired" promotion.

    We would likely need a mana yield, which we store in CvPlayer. Maybe it should be reset on turn start to prevent nobody from stockpiling for 100 turns and then blast the enemies. If we base spell cost on upkeep, then resetting each round would make even more sense.

    We should consider what to do about player spells and unit spells.

    Master of Magic has some interesting spell concepts, which translate well into the colo engine. For instance reduce movement costs for roads.

    Maybe we should have flying recon units like pixies.
     
  3. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    Messages:
    3,095
    Location:
    Marooned, Y'isrumgone
    All great ideas. Talk about writing it all up on paper first, this mod would have a bunch of that. I remember loving Master of Magic, it has been so long though I can't remember.

    But yeah, we should create something completely new and not try to follow any FFH designs, but can still get inspiration from that.

    One idea that is forming in my mind as a Victory condition is that one of the main characters(bad guys) is attempting to gain power in order to bring about "fimbulvetr", a long period of great cold, in which the world becomes locked in ice, which eventually leads to Ragnarok, the final battle of the gods, and the end of the world as we know it.

    As the main villain gains power, ice tiles begin popping up putting a sense of urgency on the players. The Player will need to make alliances or conquer his enemies in order to be powerful enough to with stand the coming cold, and the coming battle.

    There are so many stories from all the mythologies and we could use artistic license and put our own spine on things as well.
     
  4. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,293
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Yes indeed, sounds interesting. :)

    But:

    If you choose to create a fantasy mod, maybe keep in mind that it wouldn't be too bad to attract other people to join as team members or partners.

    Other scenarios (inspired by "Warhammer" or "Warcraft" or "Lord of the Rings" or whatever) might attract a lot more people.

    Doesn't necessary mean that such other fantasy scenarios would make for a better mod.
    It is just something I would consider.

    Also the community already has many small projects (mainly modmods) going.

    Skilled experienced modders are really rare these days.
    Efforts of the rest of the modding community in general is extremely wide spread.

    Many projects are run by 1 or 2 people only.
    Thus in most of these projects there is almost no progress. :(

    And even if such a small mod is published, quality is often extremely poor.

    --------

    I kind of really miss the old days, where at least a few projects would achieve to gather a reasonable team (with a core of experienced and skilled modders)
    to create a mod of decent size and quality.

    Coding Features, creating graphics, bugfixing, testing, texts, translations, balancing, events, ... is an incredible amount of work.
    I am still absolutely convinced that only a strong team with enough skilled and motivated people could ever successfully create a really good mod.

    But maybe this is the mod that could be attractive enough to bring together such a strong team. :dunno:

    --------

    Sorry if this sounds like criticism of this idea. (It is not.)

    I just want to point out, that this community does not really need another mini-(mod)mod with almost no progress and bad quality that will probably
    be abandoned in a while or even if it is released almost nobody will ever play.

    Please try to focus on your existing projects first before further spreading resources. :thumbsup:
    (Or if you are really convinced of this new projects abandon the other ones and focus on this one.)
     
  5. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2003
    Messages:
    3,858
    Location:
    near Koblenz, Germany
    Sounds quite interesting. :)

    But, before thinking of all the cool features to be implemented I would propose to make some thoughts about how to improve the AI - something which I think has been missed in recent mods.
    They are all a bit different from each other but in the end they are all based on the same wrotten AI we've inhereted from the original Civ4/Civ4Col.
     
  6. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,354
    I agree with ray. I tried working on RaRE and M:C at the same time and ended up ditching RaRE. It is hard for one person to make changes to more than a single mod without stalling and not really making any progress.

    CMC is a result of this output. Now I can focus on one thing, which is the CMC DLL source code. The setup allows the results to be used in multiple mods, but for the actual workload I focus on a single source code only.

    What we should do to make such mods really is to recruit more people. We can offer maintained DLL and python meaning we can offer non-programmers the ability to make what will hopefully be a great game. I think there are plenty of people who would like to do that and have the skills, but they aren't trying because they think they need to write code as well. The question is how to access those people. We talked about that before.

    Maybe we should think about aiming for a release. Having activity on sourceforge wouldn't be bad. Given that we can add graphics to git now (sourceforge has unlimited server space) we should likely fill up col2071 with graphics as well. Showing two mods that different could be a showcase for getting attention.

    Aiming for a release would mean finishing up current loose ends like yield demands. Right now would likely be a good time to stop developing brand new features.

    I have been thinking of the AI and how to improve it. At least it should be able to follow the new rules, but a major overhaul would be great.

    Semi related is the fact that I decided to look into multiplayer. RaR is nearly impossible to desync and I think I can gain the same level of stability for CMC. As my design plan is to make the DLL handle all network sync, fixing the DLL will give network gaming to all mods at once. It is a bit of work though as M:C changes never considered network games.
     
  7. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    Messages:
    3,095
    Location:
    Marooned, Y'isrumgone
    There are actually tons of people who visit these forums, but most never take the time to make any posts. There is just so much out there to attract and distract peoples attention so I am afraid what we have is what we have, besides the new comers every now and then, but I could be wrong.

    Yes, I've thought about Warcraft first as it would be a perfect setup plus I loved that game. But then, after being inspired by the Vikings I thought it would be cool to come up with something totally fresh. Perhaps tell a totally fresh story as well in the mod. But, a warcraft mod could be a good base for a mod like I am mentioning here.

    Well, I alone could create such a mod, and as Long as I worked on it there would be progress, but I am not your average modder. That's how M:C came about for the most part. There is just so much code and graphics already available so for a person who can copy and paste most of the hard work is already done. It just takes time. Modding is a hobby so until I can no longer do it, or I find a better hobby then I'll be able to do it. I don't know what the future holds, I could be done with modding tomorrow you just never know what opportunities or events could transpire, but I am here at the moment. And I would say that goes for all of us.

    So, what are you saying ray, ready to form a team? We have like 4 to 5 active or semi active guys right now. :D

    The beautiful thing of what Nightinggale is doing (I'm helping best I can too) is that the base for M:C is going to be extrememly user configurable. So, even if we do not all agree on an issue it can be set up so that different play styles can be activated with in game options or xml tags.

    Then for any "official release" we can simply take a vote on what to put in and leave out. Mod mods can be created and in game text can be added to point out none "official" features.

    What I am saying is, everybody wins! :goodjob:

    Well, like I already stated. I have plans for M:C that I will bring to fruition. Besides, everything we add to M:C is adding to any thing we branch off from M:C so working on M:C is working on all my future mods ;)

    If you can point out any specific changes that should be made please point them out in the Suggestions forum perhaps. That will greatly help when we start looking into this.

    One thing we could do is find people who are or have worked on similar mods and then just ask them directly. For M:C we should work out a more complete list of tasks that needs complete. We did really well on the Civics screen, so I am sure with effort we can complete the rest.

    That's were I would be no good. My time frame is crazy. I mod when I can and sometimes I have to sneak in a few turns or code when I have a few mins here and there. So, I just couldn't work with a dead line. To quote Blizzard, "It will be done, when it is done." :)

    Well, I looked into the yield demands and I feel that this should just add a small part to the mod. Much like the Warehouse expansion is in vanilla. It is not critical just a cool part that gives a little extra gold. Currently in M:C this part is unfinished along with auto selling overflow so it does need finished up.

    However, on issues like this I would say that we should summit our own version of the code, that we have play tested and feel is a good fit, then others can play test and give feedback, make suggestions, and such, until there is agreement. Then if there are still conflicting desires we simply make a vote(you can't vote unless you have play tested or submitted your own option), and the winner is part of the "official" mod, or we can come up with a compromise in case of a tie.

    As mentioned, everyone is free to make their own Modmod, or we can add in game options to change play style.
     
  8. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,354
    It's by far the best solution because it will avoid the issue of getting people to agree on the design. It also allows more diverse mods based on the same source.

    Writing this makes me realize one thing. While it is good to move decisions to XML, we can make compiletime decisions. MOD_Yields.h is included in all files and in M:C it has
    Code:
    #define MEDIEVAL_CONQUEST
    #define USE_NOBLE_CLASS
    The first line is kind of mandatory and all mods have one of those. However the last one is M:C only (at the moment).

    The original idea was to get rid of flags like USE_NOBLE_CLASS. However since I moved some header files from the source into the mod module (sourceMOD dir), we might as well exploit this new feature and make decisions at compile time, which would be problematic to do at runtime. Performance would be better, but using such define flags will allow writing optional code, which would be more tricky to write with runtime checks.

    I know MOD_Yields.h would likely not be the best name for a file with a config like that, but the main goal of that file is the yield enum.

    I didn't mean a plan with dates on it. It was more meant as task priority. We should decide what to add to the next release and then not focus on tasks not on the list until we have released. We have written so many new features since last release that it would be good to release again. Release early and release often.

    I find the current economy severely broken as money is too hard at first, then you get a marked money flows in like crazy and you will not really be short on money.
     
  9. Fullerene

    Fullerene Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    228
    Gender:
    Male
    As Finn I like the name Finnvitka.:)Well how about Kalevala themed mod? Maybe the goal would be to build or find Sampo.

    Or maybe mod could be based on multiple national epics (Beowulf,Roland,etc.).

    But maybe it might be wise to postpone actual work, till M:C is "finished" state? I could work on this one too, if I ever manage to finish the USSR/WWII mod. And then there's the WHM where I want to offer help too...

    It's always nice to throw ideas anyway.
     
  10. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,354
    What makes you think that will ever happen? :p

    Have you considered getting that one added to sourceforge?
     
  11. Fullerene

    Fullerene Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    228
    Gender:
    Male
    Once I have something worth showing. Didn't work much on it on past month.
     

Share This Page