rschissler
King
While I agree with a lot of your arguments about Civ 5's lackings, your premise that "Civ 5 is a dismal failure because Firaxis (and 2K) wanted it to be that way" is pretty ridiculous and makes no sense.
Firaxis isn't incomepetent - they're just CHEATING us and they've planned all it out!
- Thread starter lordsurya08
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KrikkitTwo
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You are using the "New Coke" idea... company releases a bad product so that an improved product gets better sales.
Quite frankly I doubt they are
1-that stupid
OR
2-that smart
As mentioned Civ 5 was a big change and so it had a lot of problems... so did Civ4 on initial release (although not as many).
Just like it would be best to buy Civ 4 ~1-1.5 years ago (with all the patches and expansions), Civ 5 will probably be good in 3-4 years (with all gameplay patches/expansions)
Quite frankly I doubt they are
1-that stupid
OR
2-that smart
As mentioned Civ 5 was a big change and so it had a lot of problems... so did Civ4 on initial release (although not as many).
Just like it would be best to buy Civ 4 ~1-1.5 years ago (with all the patches and expansions), Civ 5 will probably be good in 3-4 years (with all gameplay patches/expansions)
jagdtigerciv
Prince
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JBConquests
Prince
I don't agree with the OP at all.
The cause is as simple as Firaxis/2k Management released the game to soon to make Christmas profits. It happens often in the software industry...
Don't blame the devs with all the negatives. I posted this in another thread and will repost it again:
The cause is as simple as Firaxis/2k Management released the game to soon to make Christmas profits. It happens often in the software industry...
Don't blame the devs with all the negatives. I posted this in another thread and will repost it again:
Civ Vicious
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I'm not really new here, I've been coming here for years. Just on and off with actually using a username. So I've forgot about three of them.
Anyway, from what I can remember. A lot of posters were moaning on here about how poor CIV IV was when that was released. Some people hated the concept of religion, I remember a lot of "There doesn't seem to be any benefit of religion" posts. Now they took it out, people are moaning about religion not being there.
Mobilize talking about how he hates CIV IV five months before it even came out.
I'm I The Only One Who Is Mad
another poster complaining about the little things -
The stupidity of having wild animals on the map.
Kinseek: -
So what do we hate about Civ Iv?
Wolfar: - a poster who is sick of the moaning so posts
Tired of compaining --- Who is for civ IV?
jipinard get's upset with the moaning and posts
What the heck is wrong with you people?
massemo's popular
CIV IV doesn't compare to CIV 3
or
think denial is starting to wear off - yes. the game is just so boring now.
And to think these were just posted within a few days of each other in the month of October 2005.
Now I could go on and point out more old threads. The fact is, this happens on EVERY SINGLE forum of every great game on release and the following months. Someone has to moan. And when people get attached to a game for five years. Well it doesn't become Firaxis's game anymore, not even Sid Meiers, it becomes THEIR game.
Just that CIV IV was such a great game, Firaxis were going to get hammered no matter what.
Give it a couple of years. It took CIV IV so long to be complete.
Anyway, from what I can remember. A lot of posters were moaning on here about how poor CIV IV was when that was released. Some people hated the concept of religion, I remember a lot of "There doesn't seem to be any benefit of religion" posts. Now they took it out, people are moaning about religion not being there.
Mobilize talking about how he hates CIV IV five months before it even came out.
I'm I The Only One Who Is Mad
another poster complaining about the little things -
The stupidity of having wild animals on the map.
Kinseek: -
So what do we hate about Civ Iv?
Wolfar: - a poster who is sick of the moaning so posts
Tired of compaining --- Who is for civ IV?
jipinard get's upset with the moaning and posts
What the heck is wrong with you people?
massemo's popular
CIV IV doesn't compare to CIV 3
or
think denial is starting to wear off - yes. the game is just so boring now.
And to think these were just posted within a few days of each other in the month of October 2005.
Now I could go on and point out more old threads. The fact is, this happens on EVERY SINGLE forum of every great game on release and the following months. Someone has to moan. And when people get attached to a game for five years. Well it doesn't become Firaxis's game anymore, not even Sid Meiers, it becomes THEIR game.
Just that CIV IV was such a great game, Firaxis were going to get hammered no matter what.
Give it a couple of years. It took CIV IV so long to be complete.
Congrats on the 2nd best user name I've seen here.
Civ Vicious
Chieftain
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lol, what's the first?
I never said anything to him, but there's a guy somewhere around here with the user name Cincinnatus C. It's a fairly obscure reference, but I'm a Vladimir Nabokov mark so I liked that one. Yours gets points for cleverness, though.
duckstab
Child of Noble Family
Couple points.
You would be very surprised at how much turnover there is in the software business, both voluntary and involuntary. We don't have enough visibility into the inner workings of 2K/Firaxis to know if it was a factor in this case, but in general, departure of even a few key individuals can have a massive impact on a software product. And from the outside, you probably didn't even know who those key individuals were: they might have been the people who kept the nightly integration builds going, or made sure adequate testing took place, or kept the team from self-destructing.
I've said as much elsewhere, but this point bears repeating. Talented - or at least competent - designers and developers are a necessary but insufficient condition for turning out a successful piece of software. Even assuming everyone involved in the actual development of Civ5 was at the top of their game, if the overall corporate culture didn't support their efforts they wouldn't be able to turn out a first-rate product.
My best guess? In Software Project Management 101 there's a frequently-quoted axiom: "Fast, Cheap, Good: Pick Any Two". The Civ5 team was probably given a hard deadline (Fast) and fixed resources (Cheap). At that point they had only two options, either reduce scope or skimp on quality, and they probably ended up having to do some of both.
In short, I think the sad state of software development in general is a far more likely explanation of what happened with Civ5 than is any Machiavellian scheming on the part of 2K/Firaxis.
I agree, most games these days aren't developed enough.
OP is wrong on the Windows Vista part. Windows 7 is almost exactly the same as Vista, we just have the hardware to run it properly now.
Truthy
Chatbot
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- 2,203
It is possible that the developers of Civilization V (or any other game) may with hold content from the original release as it can be sold in DLC or expansion packs.
The Call of Duty series is an excellent example of a game that strives to waste the consumer's money. This is demonstrated with the fact that they don't release the extra maps in the original game, rather they sell them a few months later.
Please ask yourselves why the Babylonians were not included in the original Civilization V.
The Call of Duty series is an excellent example of a game that strives to waste the consumer's money. This is demonstrated with the fact that they don't release the extra maps in the original game, rather they sell them a few months later.
Please ask yourselves why the Babylonians were not included in the original Civilization V.
Diplomat32
Chieftain
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I don't think Firaxis made a poor product on purpose. Civ5 failed for 2 reasons IMO:
1) Lack of resources and time caused features not to be implemented correctly.
2) Firaxis tried new ideas (like 1upt) which they thought would be really cool but ended up taking the game in the wrong direction.
1) Lack of resources and time caused features not to be implemented correctly.
2) Firaxis tried new ideas (like 1upt) which they thought would be really cool but ended up taking the game in the wrong direction.
Double that bit about turnover in the computer games industry. It's not a great industry to work in, although the work itself can be very interesting and enjoyable. Hours are long, pay is mediocre and employment is uncertain as it is common practice to sack most of the team at release (if the project makes it that far, a lot of games get cancelled during production). You can hardly blame people for switching to somewhat better employment when they reach the stage in life where they want to start a family.
I guess that doesn't apply to the OP?
Thanks for reminding me why I avoided this forum for months. People can post all kinds of sh1te here, but when other posters point out their idiocy, they get infracted by the mods.
Moderator Action: And people who complain about moderator actions in the public also get infracted.
Next time, use a private message if you have to say anything about an action.
The doctor tells you to take those pills for a reason.
Moderator Action: And flaming is even less allowed.
People are funny indeed.
Moderator Action: Use the report post function
if you see a problematic post, and don't respond! 
lordsurya08
class-A procrastinator
You're telling me to be "constructive", and you wrote a rude two-sentence comment that lacks any value or reasoning whatsoever? You say that my opinion is "sh1te" but you don't say why. Which makes it look like you didn't read the OP. And the "pills" insult was uncalled for and completely unnecessary.
Oh, btw, why don't you avoid this forum for a few months longer? I assure you, trolls like you won't be missed.
Moderator Action: Don't flame back. Report problematic posts.
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