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Fireball not affect by magic resistance or fire resistance

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Bringa, Jul 16, 2007.

  1. Bringa

    Bringa King

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    This is one of those posts I feel foolish about, because come on, it cannot be that I'm the first to discover this. However, searches don't turn up anything, so chances are I'm doing something seriously wrong... or I don't know.

    From very superficial testing (I haven't put more than half an hour into this) it seems that fireballs have been unaffected by magic and fire resistance ever since 0.20 (when the new damage types were introduced).

    Basically, the way I tested this was to always put a bunch of mages on the map for me and a bunch of crossbowmen (since they're likely to survive a simple fireball) for the enemy. I'd give us each three of those. One of the crossbowmen gets no promotions, the next gets magic resistance, and the last gets magic resistance *and* fire resistance.

    Then I'd create the fireballs and first do a combat hover. Since my first intuition was not to trust the combat odds (where NOTHING shows up ever since 0.20), I also ran a number of combats trying to find different trends for naked crossbowmen/crossbowmen with full protection. I could find no differences there either.

    I went all the way back to 016 (and how the main splash has become prettier ever since! Kudos on that ;P) and lo and behold, there's my mag. res. / fire res. in the combat odds and also reflected in the combat results.

    Could it be that the new damage types simply don't work with resistances? Or is this a special case with fireball/meteor (which I've also tested, even more superficially, coming to the same results) since it's somehow different from other stuff? I could go on testing this with fire elementals / with the new lightning damage spell and lightning resistance etc, but I thought I'd just put it out here so someone can tell me, d'oh, you forgot to recalibrate the plasma manifolds or whatever very obvious thing it is I've surely overlooked.
     
  2. psychoak

    psychoak Warlord

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    Could it also be that your install is hosed?

    "Since my first intuition was not to trust the combat odds (where NOTHING shows up ever since 0.20), "

    If you're just talking about specific things that are missing from the odds, ok, but there's nothing wrong with mine that I've noticed, do you really mean nothing?
     
  3. rusty217

    rusty217 Veil Fanatic

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    Well you seem to be right,
    Magic resistances and immunities still work against targeted spells but against other things such as fireballs or units with elemental damage the resistances fail to work.

    Interesting discovery grats.....
     
  4. Bringa

    Bringa King

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    psychoak: I can't quite follow you. Let's compare specific situations: you have two mages capable of casting fireballs. The enemy has two crossbowmen, each on its own tile of grassland. One of these crossbowmen has magic and fire resistance, the other has neither.

    Cast a fireball. Select the fireball. Press the right mouse button and hold it pressed. Hover your cursor over both of the units in turn. Do you see the same combat odds (both the percentage and the x.xx vs x.xx figures) on both enemies or not? Do you see the +xx% vs. fire damage listed in the details on the unit with fire resistance? And if all that is not enough, attack both and see if you get a clear difference in damage caused. You may need to recreate this scenario a number of times to get a good data set due to the high amount of randomness in civ 4 combat. (which is a topic for another thread)

    Rusty: I still can't believe I'd be the first to notice this! It's been MONTHS since 0.20! I guess the multiplaying ffh fans don't use magic resistance much.
     
  5. R0GERSHRUBBER

    R0GERSHRUBBER Shrubber

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    I just verified this and it does seem that Fireballs are unaffected by Magic Resistance and Vulnerable to Fire. Magic Immune does provide a +40% bonus vs. Summoned, however.

    Incidentally, it's unsurprising that this has gone unnoticed: Magic Resistant is almost certainly the weakest trait.
     
  6. Bringa

    Bringa King

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    Well yes, as a trait it surely is. I think the promotion should be accessible much earlier. Combat IV is crazy as prereq. Combat I is more like it. But I'm not even talking balancing here, just basic functionality. Vulnerability also doesn't work then? Interesting.

    I tried this with 023, 022, 021, 020, and 016, and only in 016 did magic resistance and fire resistance have any effect.
     
  7. Sureshot

    Sureshot Goddess

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    magic resistance promotion used to atleast be somewhat useful for dealing with those damn adept shock troops, but now it doesnt help against Arcane units (making the promotion nearly useless and those damn adepts super warriors).
     
  8. Grey Fox

    Grey Fox Master of Points

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    I think there might be a bigger problem in 0.23 atm, which is Causing this.
    Some bonuses doesn't seem to work on the defense at times.

    For example, I was looking at the odds when mousing over with a warrior vs an Adept, and his combat III wasn't calculated in the odds, making the battle 3.0 vs 3.0 or 50%.

    I think someone else reported a similar issue.
     
  9. Bringa

    Bringa King

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    Which of the units in your example had combat III, Grey Fox? The adept or the warrior?
     
  10. Grey Fox

    Grey Fox Master of Points

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    The Adept. (the defending unit)
     
  11. Bringa

    Bringa King

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    I cannot confirm this, Grey Fox. I just recreated that situation and the Adept's Combat III shows up just fine. Are you sure this is happening with 023b?
     
  12. rusty217

    rusty217 Veil Fanatic

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    I would concur with this,

    Grey Fox, you sure it was combat three? or did your warrior have any promos that could have negated the bonus?
     
  13. Chip56

    Chip56 King

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    As it stands now its seems combat promotions dont work on the defense if the unit has a promotion that gives additional strength (sheut stones,etc)
     
  14. aku

    aku Chieftain

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    Speaking of fireballs. If you place a caster in forest, cast fireball/meteors and then treetop defense with another caster you have fireball/meteors with first strikes. Don't make much sense but it works. ;)
     

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