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First Contact Planning

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by DaveShack, Aug 3, 2012.

  1. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    Most important is that we show respect by making a good effort to use Spanish. It need not be perfect. They may actually be more impressed if our Spanish is imperfect. Perfect Spanish means "Oh they have someone on the team who speaks Spanish, whatevers, that's nice." Imperfect Spanish means "Oh wow, they don't speak Spanish but they are trying to learn Spanish just to show respect to us. Impressive!" :)
     
  2. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    With the Spanish team, I think I will take the Ambassadorship. The reason for this being all the contact I have had with their mod developers who happen to also be their captains, and we have a very good relation even with the language barrier (their English skills are lacking). I do not speak Spanish myself so the help would be very appreciated, Yossarian. I think we would benefit from using a "to-the-point", but polite and friendly form towards them. They seem very uninterested in roleplaying, and they should be positively inclined towards our team from the outset as we heavily advocated their mod. I suspect they are quite hostile towards RB though *evil grin*

    Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
     
  3. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Thanks Daveshack for taking a look over the translation! If we still want to use this same message when we finally meet the Spaniards, I'll make those corrections you suggested.

    I'm glad Caledorn has volunteered for the Spanish Ambassadorship. I think we can get a lot of mileage from their positive relationship. They seem to have a team that is geared towards early warfare, hopefully we can help direct that aggression in the correct direction. ;)

    Caledorn, if we need to get out a quick message in Spanish, PM me and I'll make sure to work on it right away. Although some of you may have noticed that I check these threads obsessively, so a PM might not even be necessary!
     
  4. grant2004

    grant2004 Citizen

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    First contact has been made by our intrepid explorer Thuderfall.

    We've met team RB, so it's time to put our first contact planning to good use. The last English draft I see is this:

    Spoiler :
    From (Chief Diplomat/Ambassdor), CivFanatic Foreign Minister, Domainal Protonotary, (other honorific to satisfy the rule of threes), to (Rival Team Leader), (honorific or two), greeting.

    It pleases our peoples to make your esteemed acquaintance, and we would hope our jubilation echoes in your halls. The prospect of peace and friendship for both our nations is a most happy one. We inquire as to when we may receive assurances of your similar joyous intent.

    It has come to our notice that both our nations possess the means to fight. In order to avoid such a tragedy, we would like to formalize a non-aggression pact with your government. Kindly give notice if this would meet with your approval.

    To strengthen that pact, we believe it may prove wise to come to a gentleman's agreement on the matter of territorial division. To avoid undignified outrage in future, we propose to postpone such division until such time as both parties have better information regarding said territory.

    We look forward to your prompt response.


    We'd also mentioned that RB may not appreciate messages heavy in role play, and would prefer them to be direct and to the point. Should we revise this message before sending to fit more with that estimation of RB? Do we have someone on the team who's planning to act as our lead ambassador? Any concept from the more experienced members of the team on how quickly we should send this message out. Obviously sooner is better, but how long is too long?
     
  5. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    We should not wait more than a day - two at the most - to get out a message to them, unless we get a message from them first that is. With Team RB we should be concise and to the point, no RP. They are probably already biased towards us, as we are towards them too, so we need to be careful here. I find the fact that they are our first contact pretty ironic, as both they and we know that cooperation in the early game is critical to late game success.

    Do we have anyone who want to represent us towards RB? I'm reluctant towards representing towards them, and hoping someone else wants that role. If nobody steps up though, I will take it upon me, as at the moment I believe I am the teams lead ambassador (I was the only one interested in the job, but Dave never called a confidence vote for it...)?

    With first contact I am reprioritizing some time here, as this is critical, so I am fully available with immediate effect again now until the most critical stage of the contact is done. I hope you can continue the turnplaying/turnlogging for a bit more though, grant - and thank you for doing it! :)
     
  6. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    A day is far too long. Especially for first contact with RB. All we need to do is send them a message saying the following 3 things:

    1. We are glad to have met them first and we are glad to be neighbors.
    2. We want a NAP until turn 100 to get relations started on the right foot.
    3. We want to hear their preliminary thoughts on setting a border between us.

    this should be sent right away without delay.
     
  7. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    A gentle reminder that we desperately need two things to be effective in this stage of the game on the diplomatic front.

    1. We NEED a pre drafted letter to every team that can be tweaked and sent immediately when we meet them so that there is no need for a discussion before making first contact.

    2. Our Diplomats MUST feel empowered to make immediate communications with other teams and then get back to us with what is said. I mentioned this before, but I want to reiterate WE WILL LOSE if our approach to diplo is for the Diplomats to have to say "So what do we want to say to X Team?" and then have 1-2 days of discussion. The Diplomat MUST say "This is what I sent to X team" period... or, when we have the luxury of a day or 2 for discussion (First contact is NOT one of those cases) "This is what I am saying. If you have an objection speak up in the next few hours."
     
  8. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    Oh and absolutely NO ROLEPLAY with RB, they seem to hate and ridicule that. Just speak in your normal voice without any grand diplospeak.
     
  9. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    Here is a draft:
     
  10. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    Lets not reveal to them that they are the first team we have met. If they lost their exploring warrior early they might think they are behind the curve in meeting other teams. We should also be careful in border discussions that might reveal info they don't know yet. This is just for the preliminary stage, we can choose to reveal stuff after this initial exchange.

    Also, i'm against empowering our diplomats plenipoteniary powers. Yes, our ambassadors should be able to discuss stuff and ponder ideas with other teams. But it should always be clear that any binding decisions/agreements will be made by the team.
     
  11. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    This is my draft:

    Edit: I see Sommer has created a draft while I created this draft. I will modify my draft leaning on Sommers suggestion below, but leave my original draft to let the team see how I would approach Team RB on my own.
     
  12. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    Here is my modified draft:

    Edit: Modified in the sentence about only team we have contact with that I forgot to put in there.
     
  13. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    The question is: do we have anything to lose on giving up that simple bit of information? I don't think so. I think it will serve as a potential benefit (building trust), rather than a possible loss (by giving too much info). In diplomacy, one of the things I learned from Team Merlot, was that it's better to give a little bit of extra information, rather than to be too cautious. If we had been less cautious with our initial diplomacy on Team Merlot, we might have been in the tech sharing alliance, and the game might have turned out entirely differently.

    I don't think plenipoteniary powers is what is implied. It's the same thing the turn players should be entrusted with: the option to act quickly when needed, and the trust in the diplomats (And the turnplayers in that case) to act in the team's best interest. However, I think we should take that discussion after we have sent off our message to Team RB.
     
  14. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    I'm giving it an hour or two at max before I send off that last draft I made to Team RB's GMail account. I will also log in to the game and let them know that a diplomatic message has been sent via in game diplomacy channels, to make sure they actually get it (I remember there was an incident with teams not checking their team mail account in the MTDG, so let's avoid that blunder this time). Giving you guys some time to react and respond first though, although short notice.
     
  15. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    Here is a simple draft for a generic message that can be sent to the non-RP teams. The previous suggested draft for RP teams is good (if perhaps a bit excessive on the titles :lol:), so unless someone believes it should be modified I think we should use that.

    I would like feedback on this draft ASAP, and I would very much appreciate this draft (or the end result after some discussion around it) to be translated to Spanish immediately when we're done with it, so I have that ready for when we meet them. I'm not sure about the German team and RP, but German translation and French translation (of the appropriate message) would also be good. The translations should be posted in the proper thread for the team involved so the person responsible for sending the message has quick access to it when it is needed.

    Geesh .. Sorry for spamming the thread :p This is important though, and I should have taken care of this last week and not now - but I am unable to go back in time, so I'm trying to make sure everything is ready to go for the next team we meet.
     
  16. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    As soon as we met them, the espionage slider appears and we immediately are forced to put all 4 espy points against them. They are hypersensitive about our espionage and will be checking every point we spend immediately, every turn (which we should be doing too BTW).

    So if we dont tell them that they are the only team we met, they will either:

    1. Assume it when they see that we put all 4 espy points on them and are trying to amateurishly hide that they are the only team we know:( or;
    2. Assume that we are intentionally stacking espy on them which will be interpreted as hostility... not to mention send all the "Beware the CFC Espy economy!!!" Nuts into a frenzy.:(

    On the other hand, if we are just honest with them about something they know anyway (as I explained above) we will establish some much needed goodwill.:)
     
  17. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    Caledorn, I am so glad you brought that up because I wasn't going to say anything for fear of giving offense. You are so right on the money with this statement.
    Frankly I have no idea what "plenipotentiary" means and I'm not looking it up (and I'm not ashamed to admit it:)). My vocabulary is pretty large, and I have to admit that you caught me off gurad with that one cav;).

    Big huge 7 syllable words that I don't understand aside:p... Caledorn is right, and the message should go out right away, like within the hour. I will take full heat and responsibility to anyone who is offended that we didn't wait longer. First Contact Diplo is a game of hours and a few hours delay can be the difference between be in the team they make a NAP (or treaty) with, and the team who they attack first because you're the only team they don't have a NAP with.:( Send that letter out ASAP.
     
  18. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    Yes we can discuss in more detail what we want to reveal about terrain, resources, etc. But right now we need speed speed speed. Delay will be read as incompetence or worse... hostility.

    As I said I dont know what the 7 syllable word means:), but that last part about binding agreements... There is no binding agreement being put on the table that any sane member of the team could possibly disagree with. Are we going to war with RB in the next 80 turns? No, so a NAP until turn 100 is a no brainer, right? We don't need a discussion on that do we? If we do we are doomed.:(

    I will go dig up my Law dictionary and we can have a multi syllable debate on what the specific powers of the diplomats will be over the weeks to come. For now lets just make 1st Contact and get a NAP in place.
     
  19. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    Yes, I agree to send it immediately. Well said! :goodjob:

    I've been doing some more digging around at Civfr, and it seems they conduct diplomacy rather pragmatically, like us. Digging round in their forum from a previous ISDG, I found their diplomatic discussion threads. Their messages range from stuff like sacrifices and killing great beasts now called lions to us, and "We come in peace. Trade techs with us" to some other teams. They had a diplomatic setup like ours while we were electing foreign ministers to limited terms. :hammer:

    They did most of their diplomacy in English, so I can repost some of the messages on request - please don't visit the forum itself unless you have too, it is a small site where several guests visiting an old ISDG forum all of a sudden will be noticed.
     
  20. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    I have sent the email to Team RB. Please take any further discussion about Team RB in the appropriate thread here for easier reading. Feel free to copy/paste over anything related from this thread to that thread, and let's keep this thread clean of team specific diplomacy so we can come to an agreement on the generic drafts, powers granted to the diplomats/ambassadors etc here. :)

    Edit: Please also be aware of the fact that I have added our diplo-gmail account to my Android phone, so I will get notifications immediately even if I am not at my computer, or otherwise occupied.
     

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