Bartleby
Remembers laughter
TruePurple said:
In Other Words
Killer AI
First demigods
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In Other Words
Killer AI
Sorry :
IOW In Other Words
KAI Killer AI
I doubt they would be of any use, nor will they be likely to come off of furious. AI's are not reliable allies on attacking strong civs.
To me I have little concern about Zulu gettign more land. It will not help them, unless it has a resource or a lux. They are not going to be able to keep any land on my contient anyway. I will be taking that from them.
There was little land they did not already have outside of my contient and that was going to be their until I can get there to to take it.
As I said the end was in sight and anything that did not allow you to take land, was a waste of time.
You just did not have the time to recoup, regroup or anything else. As I said you have to clear the landmass, preferably before the save was even posted.
It was probably not doable at that point, all I was saying is to have any chance you had to act and now and decisively. Anything else was going to be a loss.
If VP was not part of the game and only Dom and Conquest was allowed, then you may have had enough time to do something else.
IOW In Other Words
KAI Killer AI
I doubt they would be of any use, nor will they be likely to come off of furious. AI's are not reliable allies on attacking strong civs.
To me I have little concern about Zulu gettign more land. It will not help them, unless it has a resource or a lux. They are not going to be able to keep any land on my contient anyway. I will be taking that from them.
There was little land they did not already have outside of my contient and that was going to be their until I can get there to to take it.
As I said the end was in sight and anything that did not allow you to take land, was a waste of time.
You just did not have the time to recoup, regroup or anything else. As I said you have to clear the landmass, preferably before the save was even posted.
It was probably not doable at that point, all I was saying is to have any chance you had to act and now and decisively. Anything else was going to be a loss.
If VP was not part of the game and only Dom and Conquest was allowed, then you may have had enough time to do something else.
TruePurple
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I'm in the middle of a vicious battle with Germany but I got the upper hand, some turns ago Zulu dropped out of the war, which makes things harder but also assures me they won't take any more land while I'm fighting.
I saw some Zulu tanks down to there last hp, I was tempted to take them out. But didn't want to fight the Zulu too at this point. (not at least till I've conquired germany) A good call?
I slipped into mobilization mode after I got some key city structures up. But I do miss being able to build more .. the structure after bank..
I got lots of troops now, but its sure tedious blasting a city down plus taking out any troops that pop up to evade. (blasting them down too, since only my armies can have more then a chance of taking down a infantry not red lined)
I want to steal communism, I'm thinking it might be a good idea to switch to it after I stop fighting Germany. Is it do you think? Problem is every time I try to plant a spy it gets caught.
Anyways heres a save if your curious.
I saw some Zulu tanks down to there last hp, I was tempted to take them out. But didn't want to fight the Zulu too at this point. (not at least till I've conquired germany) A good call?
I slipped into mobilization mode after I got some key city structures up. But I do miss being able to build more .. the structure after bank..
I got lots of troops now, but its sure tedious blasting a city down plus taking out any troops that pop up to evade. (blasting them down too, since only my armies can have more then a chance of taking down a infantry not red lined)
I want to steal communism, I'm thinking it might be a good idea to switch to it after I stop fighting Germany. Is it do you think? Problem is every time I try to plant a spy it gets caught.
Anyways heres a save if your curious.
I pretty much never use Communism. I used it once just for a laugh, but I am not willing to make more than one switch per game and I do not play as A religious civ anymore.
Are you waiting for a few turns to try to plant after failing? Being commie would give you vet spies and increase you odds a bit, but lots of turns of anarchy will hurt.
Is this the same game that end with VP loss? Did you back up and avoid that or just go on with the game conditions over?
You were wise to skip those tanks, if you did not want a war. Killing a few tanks will not make much difference anyway. Better to pick your time.
If you have not had war with a strong AI that has flight and you did not have flight, then you are in for a rough ride. If they have 30 or more bombers and they may at this point, you can expect huge damage to any attacking force.
Not much fun to watching armies get pounding down and out and cities losing structure after structure.
Are you waiting for a few turns to try to plant after failing? Being commie would give you vet spies and increase you odds a bit, but lots of turns of anarchy will hurt.
Is this the same game that end with VP loss? Did you back up and avoid that or just go on with the game conditions over?
You were wise to skip those tanks, if you did not want a war. Killing a few tanks will not make much difference anyway. Better to pick your time.
If you have not had war with a strong AI that has flight and you did not have flight, then you are in for a rough ride. If they have 30 or more bombers and they may at this point, you can expect huge damage to any attacking force.
Not much fun to watching armies get pounding down and out and cities losing structure after structure.
TruePurple
Civ wanna B
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Same game, I had said in a earlier post that I was going to continue (same post as where I told you I lost due to VP)
Which should I get from the germans next, flight or mass production? Flight I take it? I have the smiths trading post BTW.
Why don't you use communism? Because of the never switching governments a second time thing? Any other reasons?
Which should I get from the germans next, flight or mass production? Flight I take it? I have the smiths trading post BTW.
Why don't you use communism? Because of the never switching governments a second time thing? Any other reasons?
Flight is needed to deal with bombers and also nice to take out those ships. Not to mention being able to slap up airports and airfields.
Yes anarchy is the number one reason. Also the window for communism is not worht the trouble IMO. What I mean is a certain size you have a large enough empire to benefit from commie. Below that it is not worth it and once you get even larger, it is not worth it.
Chances are, if I am going to get large enough to use it, I will get too large to use it. The main value at a really large size is the ability to pop rush. Newly captured cities and pop rush workers/settlers, temples, whatever.
It is not uncommon though to have lots of cash at that stage, if I am in republic. I can do the rush with cash.
So I cannot say that it is actually a worse way to go, only that it seems to be worse. IOW I have not measured it all that closely. Since I am not religious, it is not even an option.
Yes anarchy is the number one reason. Also the window for communism is not worht the trouble IMO. What I mean is a certain size you have a large enough empire to benefit from commie. Below that it is not worth it and once you get even larger, it is not worth it.
Chances are, if I am going to get large enough to use it, I will get too large to use it. The main value at a really large size is the ability to pop rush. Newly captured cities and pop rush workers/settlers, temples, whatever.
It is not uncommon though to have lots of cash at that stage, if I am in republic. I can do the rush with cash.
So I cannot say that it is actually a worse way to go, only that it seems to be worse. IOW I have not measured it all that closely. Since I am not religious, it is not even an option.
TruePurple
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What do you mean, "too large to use it"? What is the problem with communism after a certain size? How much more then OCN is that/how big is too big?
[tab]I used civ assist to measure the difference, between increased income (presumably from the newly conquered tourist wonder holding cities some distance from home) and the extra unit support (you need a metropolises for monarch to get more unit support then communism) I got about 50% more income in communism. Granted some of those cities would grow to 12 soon enough with my pyramid... but thats still less support then communism.
[tab]Also i need to be able to steal from Zulu till I'm caught up. According to a article on it, under most governments, safely stealing tech through spying has a 85% chance of avoiding getting caught. Under communism & fascism its 95%. Turning that around, 15% chance of finding myself at war with Zulu after an attempt but before I'm ready verses 5%.
And as far as paying for rushing, while a courthouse or two in the wonder cities might be good, I mostly need to save that money for tech stealing. If I have any left over, troop upgrades can be useful too.
Plus its good experience to try communism for myself
Do you think I should wait till I've stolen enough tech to be caught up with Zulu before going to war with them do you think?
I wonder why your the only one who replied with advice VMXA, surely there most be other demigod+ players, so why only you reply with advice?
[tab]I used civ assist to measure the difference, between increased income (presumably from the newly conquered tourist wonder holding cities some distance from home) and the extra unit support (you need a metropolises for monarch to get more unit support then communism) I got about 50% more income in communism. Granted some of those cities would grow to 12 soon enough with my pyramid... but thats still less support then communism.
[tab]Also i need to be able to steal from Zulu till I'm caught up. According to a article on it, under most governments, safely stealing tech through spying has a 85% chance of avoiding getting caught. Under communism & fascism its 95%. Turning that around, 15% chance of finding myself at war with Zulu after an attempt but before I'm ready verses 5%.
And as far as paying for rushing, while a courthouse or two in the wonder cities might be good, I mostly need to save that money for tech stealing. If I have any left over, troop upgrades can be useful too.
Plus its good experience to try communism for myself
Do you think I should wait till I've stolen enough tech to be caught up with Zulu before going to war with them do you think?
I wonder why your the only one who replied with advice VMXA, surely there most be other demigod+ players, so why only you reply with advice?
Well I agree you can switch to see how it goes. It may well be worth it at this point at least compared to Monarchy. I was comparing it to Republic.
As to others, I am guessing a) playing IV b) not playing civ at all now. Me I just like to keep an eye on the board for III, even at Poly. Never know when you can help a bit.
I suspect that many players may feel that you can't really make much of a contribution above Emperor. I know I mostly figure that way. The players attempting those levels already know the mechanics and most of the tactics.
I just chime in here and there for a bit of "for what it is worth". Figuring they already know the idea, but maybe it had not yet occurred to them.
Player use different sytles, so ones concepts are not going to be useful to the next guys, but there are a few technical ideas that can be shared. You also have the fact that the player has not seen the game at a given level and is not exactly sure what to expect.
Anyway I had a huge map that was conquest only on sid. It was a contient game. I tried communism and it was good while I had about half the map or so. Once I got 3/4 or so and had so many towns, I could not count them, it seem that corruption got fairly bad in the core.
This is what share or communial corruption can do. It can pass enough corruption on to all the cities that you suffer in your best ones. I would rather use republic and have score and hundreds of totally corrupt towns, but have my best cities still most uncorrupted.
I tend to just make troops and important stuff in the core late in the game. I am not losing very many units, so I do not need to crank out 20 per turn.
Not losing many, because I am hitting cities with armies. Hitting stacks with armies. Not because of bombarment as much and certainly not because I have superior troops. The AI will at least be right with me, if not ahead the whole game.
As to others, I am guessing a) playing IV b) not playing civ at all now. Me I just like to keep an eye on the board for III, even at Poly. Never know when you can help a bit.
I suspect that many players may feel that you can't really make much of a contribution above Emperor. I know I mostly figure that way. The players attempting those levels already know the mechanics and most of the tactics.
I just chime in here and there for a bit of "for what it is worth". Figuring they already know the idea, but maybe it had not yet occurred to them.
Player use different sytles, so ones concepts are not going to be useful to the next guys, but there are a few technical ideas that can be shared. You also have the fact that the player has not seen the game at a given level and is not exactly sure what to expect.
Anyway I had a huge map that was conquest only on sid. It was a contient game. I tried communism and it was good while I had about half the map or so. Once I got 3/4 or so and had so many towns, I could not count them, it seem that corruption got fairly bad in the core.
This is what share or communial corruption can do. It can pass enough corruption on to all the cities that you suffer in your best ones. I would rather use republic and have score and hundreds of totally corrupt towns, but have my best cities still most uncorrupted.
I tend to just make troops and important stuff in the core late in the game. I am not losing very many units, so I do not need to crank out 20 per turn.
Not losing many, because I am hitting cities with armies. Hitting stacks with armies. Not because of bombarment as much and certainly not because I have superior troops. The AI will at least be right with me, if not ahead the whole game.
TruePurple
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Do you think I should wait till I've stolen enough tech to be caught up with Zulu before going to war with them do you think? You said to keep them busy in war to cut down there tech lead, should I do that before I got enough of there tech/does that apply here do you think?
Well if they have flight and you do not, I would try to get that first. Otherwise it will be very hard to do much. They will be able to bombard your ships and cities.
I would look to get a couple of subs out when you get the tech to find any carriers.
I would look to get a couple of subs out when you get the tech to find any carriers.
Ok, I loaded this today and took a peek. First I was able to plant a spy right away, it was the first thing I tried after loaded the save.
Then I made peace with Persi and gave Refine for Communism. Just to help them and in case a switch is requied. It will be cheaper than stealing it.
Switch Tsingtao to coal plant and then armies and nothing else for as long as we can make them.
Fill currently empty with vet infantry. Will be better at attacking than calvs and much better at defense should you really invade anyone. In fact that is all I would put in armies until tanks.
Send that army to capture Russian towns, they need to go and you need the oil.
Hurry harbor in Ningpo, it cost 44 a deal to allow growth.
Looked at the cost to investigate Bremen and Heildburg and it is about 38 gold each. That means they have two infantry in them each, so they are next to go. Note I did not spend the money to investigate as I do not need it.
Sent the four slaves doing nothing down to rail the tundra tile.
Switch Handover to wealth.
Switch Nuernburg to a settler and rush it.
Switch Handover to bank, Chenin and Shantung also to bank.
Switch Tantung to aqua.
Yakanten... to stock exchange.
Canton to infantry.
Chengdu to galleon.
Swapped some tiles in the towns near Kaifeng so that Kai can have two more coastal tiles and switch to aqua as it can now feed at least 8.
Steal Steel from Germany and steal combustion from zulu.
Once oil is taken from either Russia or Germany then switch galleons to transports and frigates to destroyers.
Then I made peace with Persi and gave Refine for Communism. Just to help them and in case a switch is requied. It will be cheaper than stealing it.
Switch Tsingtao to coal plant and then armies and nothing else for as long as we can make them.
Fill currently empty with vet infantry. Will be better at attacking than calvs and much better at defense should you really invade anyone. In fact that is all I would put in armies until tanks.
Send that army to capture Russian towns, they need to go and you need the oil.
Hurry harbor in Ningpo, it cost 44 a deal to allow growth.
Looked at the cost to investigate Bremen and Heildburg and it is about 38 gold each. That means they have two infantry in them each, so they are next to go. Note I did not spend the money to investigate as I do not need it.
Sent the four slaves doing nothing down to rail the tundra tile.
Switch Handover to wealth.
Switch Nuernburg to a settler and rush it.
Switch Handover to bank, Chenin and Shantung also to bank.
Switch Tantung to aqua.
Yakanten... to stock exchange.
Canton to infantry.
Chengdu to galleon.
Swapped some tiles in the towns near Kaifeng so that Kai can have two more coastal tiles and switch to aqua as it can now feed at least 8.
Steal Steel from Germany and steal combustion from zulu.
Once oil is taken from either Russia or Germany then switch galleons to transports and frigates to destroyers.
Here is 1740AD with flight stolen. No money left to speak of right now, but not an issue as you have all the big tickets for right now, except tanks. Go for that after piling up some cash.
Ningpo to wealth
Moscow to stock
Kaifeng to wealth
Nurenburg to wealth
Frankfort sell factory and Police station.
Raze the Russian town and now you have oil.
Steal flight
Switch all galleons to transports and frigate to destroyer.
Upgrade all caravels and galleons to transports.
Switch franfort to temple and needs to be rushed as soon as resistance ends. You need to close the border so you can send those infantry to it to defend and free up those armies.
Stutguard sedn out ships so probably has fewer defenders now. Not sure if the Germans flet the need to draft or not, but I would check just before attacking.
The armies should all be available next turn to go on the attack.
Ningpo to wealth
Moscow to stock
Kaifeng to wealth
Nurenburg to wealth
Frankfort sell factory and Police station.
Raze the Russian town and now you have oil.
Steal flight
Switch all galleons to transports and frigate to destroyer.
Upgrade all caravels and galleons to transports.
Switch franfort to temple and needs to be rushed as soon as resistance ends. You need to close the border so you can send those infantry to it to defend and free up those armies.
Stutguard sedn out ships so probably has fewer defenders now. Not sure if the Germans flet the need to draft or not, but I would check just before attacking.
The armies should all be available next turn to go on the attack.
Whoops forgot to post it:
Very spastic, sorry:
I just noticed that I had not send the mostly healed army to cover th arties when I posted that save. It should have seen the infantry moved to the tile next to the calv to prevent attacks form that direction and the army on the calv/arties.
TruePurple
Civ wanna B
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Damn, I had written up a whole bunch of stuff, only to have my browser collapse on me and lost it all. so this will have to be only a few points, since my show starts in 5 minutes.
I told you, I don't build armies (via MA) as a personal challenge.
I think your crazy to park more then a a couple units in that city. Civassist says theres a 30%-60% chance that city will flip and you'd need 423 troops to prevent it.
What I did was put a city above the lake above nermburg. This provided a railroad conduit for moving troops. Latter I found out the position was good for long term as well and continued building the city there.
Then I moved my artillery to red line the enemy infantry, sometimes taking them out with a infantry/calvary unit trying to get MGL's. Or my armies. Then I moved stacks of artillery with infantry protection to nearby cities to quickly grab them and break the culture pressure..
Got to go. My shows on and I'm missing it.
I told you, I don't build armies (via MA) as a personal challenge.
I build workers in captured cities. This provides free workers, helps end resistance. Reduces flip chance. Often using forest cutting to rush them.
I think your crazy to park more then a a couple units in that city. Civassist says theres a 30%-60% chance that city will flip and you'd need 423 troops to prevent it.
What I did was put a city above the lake above nermburg. This provided a railroad conduit for moving troops. Latter I found out the position was good for long term as well and continued building the city there.
Then I moved my artillery to red line the enemy infantry, sometimes taking them out with a infantry/calvary unit trying to get MGL's. Or my armies. Then I moved stacks of artillery with infantry protection to nearby cities to quickly grab them and break the culture pressure..
Got to go. My shows on and I'm missing it.
The temple was to expand your borders, not make happy pop. I want to do two things:
1) close the borders so they cannot travel across those tiles in one move
2) cover land in my borders so the Zulu do not find it and plop a town down.
First a town will not flip on the turn it was captured, so there is no risk. Second it speeds ending resistance, but is risky. I like only park them there long enough to heal and then on to the next episode. If it flips, bad luck, if it flips after healing, then it won't have more than two units. The Germans could not counterattack.
Note you are not going to be able to win the game without armies and you cannot count on making them from leaders. I got two more during the elimination of Germany. That is not very many.
Finished them in 1782AD. Sending 3 infantry armies asap to the beachhead in Zululand. With 9 bombers and a bunch of flaks and few fighters, may be able to dampen the zulu bombers.
Made an airfield to send over more flaks while ships are enroute, but it will be a harsh battle, if it was to be played out.
Will need all 8 armies and anymore that can get gotten to hold off the counterattack. They have about 50 tanks.
1) close the borders so they cannot travel across those tiles in one move
2) cover land in my borders so the Zulu do not find it and plop a town down.
First a town will not flip on the turn it was captured, so there is no risk. Second it speeds ending resistance, but is risky. I like only park them there long enough to heal and then on to the next episode. If it flips, bad luck, if it flips after healing, then it won't have more than two units. The Germans could not counterattack.
Note you are not going to be able to win the game without armies and you cannot count on making them from leaders. I got two more during the elimination of Germany. That is not very many.
Finished them in 1782AD. Sending 3 infantry armies asap to the beachhead in Zululand. With 9 bombers and a bunch of flaks and few fighters, may be able to dampen the zulu bombers.
Made an airfield to send over more flaks while ships are enroute, but it will be a harsh battle, if it was to be played out.
Will need all 8 armies and anymore that can get gotten to hold off the counterattack. They have about 50 tanks.
TruePurple
Civ wanna B
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"First a town will not flip on the turn it was captured, so there is no risk."
I know, but that was the second turn, and you spoke of getting more units up there so the armies could leave.
On previous stuff..
Why do you suggest moving those three cities to wealth? Seems like a perfect waste to me. Workers, settlers, city improvements are all better then an extra 1 gpt a turn.
"Frankfort sell factory and Police station."
Why? If I am going to turn around and eventually rebuild them anyways. More waste.
"Switch all galleons to transports and frigate to destroyer."
Upgrading is expensive, and I want every gold for tech stealing. I could see making one transport or something.
Speaking of, why did you get out of/stay out of, mobilization? If you want units like that, then be in mobilization during the war with Germany and make em. Then disband the old ones to rush new development afterwards.
Why? Germany had combustion as well. Its cheaper to steal from Germany instead of Zululand. Plus you don't risk starting a war with Zululand before your ready.
Oh yeah, I had peaced Persia for communism.
I waited till I got medicine and then peaced Germany for scientific method and mass production (and stole flight) Meanwhile I switched to communism.
Heres a new save, much advanced since the last one, I've nearly caught up tech wise. I set up trade and gifted Zululand lux so that I could plant a spy and steal tech immediately instead of safely, with Zululand being gracious if I fail I won't cause war. I might even manage two failures without war.
Another turn and I can afford to steal another tech. I got a modern tech from Russia so when my peace deal expires next turn I'm taking them out.
I plan to put a hospital in my cap in 2 turns when I get sanitation. I'm just prebuilding with the dam. I also plan to move my cap to leipzig. Its got a tourist wonder, and a science doubler wonder. You might notice I have a number of empty armies,(from MGL) I was thinking of loading them with calvary (not the defense of infantry, but the two extra movement points is really useful) but I wisely decided to wait on them and load them with tanks and a single mech infantry. Possibly keeping one or two in reserve for modern armor.
P.S. Would you please post a save of your latest progress?
I know, but that was the second turn, and you spoke of getting more units up there so the armies could leave.
So does turning the foreign population into workers. And by getting them out of there it reduces flip risk.
Did you red line units and use non army units (preferably elites) to defeat them? Especially when it comes to taking a city? Well anyways, thats how things go. Never the less I stick by my self limiting rules of never "building" armies or using armies to plunder terrain. (which made things more difficult in a previous war with Germany,)
On previous stuff..
Why do you suggest moving those three cities to wealth? Seems like a perfect waste to me. Workers, settlers, city improvements are all better then an extra 1 gpt a turn.
"Frankfort sell factory and Police station."
Why? If I am going to turn around and eventually rebuild them anyways. More waste.
"Switch all galleons to transports and frigate to destroyer."
Upgrading is expensive, and I want every gold for tech stealing. I could see making one transport or something.
Speaking of, why did you get out of/stay out of, mobilization? If you want units like that, then be in mobilization during the war with Germany and make em. Then disband the old ones to rush new development afterwards.
Not both, the Russians are/were still good for another tech come modern. Would have been too hasty to eliminate them needlessly then.
Why? Germany had combustion as well. Its cheaper to steal from Germany instead of Zululand. Plus you don't risk starting a war with Zululand before your ready.Oh yeah, I had peaced Persia for communism.
I waited till I got medicine and then peaced Germany for scientific method and mass production (and stole flight) Meanwhile I switched to communism.
Heres a new save, much advanced since the last one, I've nearly caught up tech wise. I set up trade and gifted Zululand lux so that I could plant a spy and steal tech immediately instead of safely, with Zululand being gracious if I fail I won't cause war. I might even manage two failures without war.
Another turn and I can afford to steal another tech. I got a modern tech from Russia so when my peace deal expires next turn I'm taking them out.
I plan to put a hospital in my cap in 2 turns when I get sanitation. I'm just prebuilding with the dam. I also plan to move my cap to leipzig. Its got a tourist wonder, and a science doubler wonder. You might notice I have a number of empty armies,(from MGL) I was thinking of loading them with calvary (not the defense of infantry, but the two extra movement points is really useful) but I wisely decided to wait on them and load them with tanks and a single mech infantry. Possibly keeping one or two in reserve for modern armor.
P.S. Would you please post a save of your latest progress?
TruePurple
"I know, but that was the second turn, and you spoke of getting more units up there so the armies could leave."
The main thing that relieves culture pressure is to not have any overlapping tile on your FAT cross. So jumping the next ciy will esae the pressure. You can place troops on those tiles as well.
"So does turning the foreign population into workers. And by getting them out of there it reduces flip risk."
You are not going to get any workers or settlers out while in resistance and that is the the most dangerous times. I find that if it is a size 12 with 10 left after capture and you can put all non resisters into jokers, you should be safe.
Now if this was deity or Sid, I would not risk it as their culture would be massive compared to mine. I did not check on it in this game, but I presume it was at least close.
You can easiely see the impact of entertainers. I loaded up a save and turned half the jokers into taxmen and boom it flipped. I dialed aroudn and foud that it did not flip if I had only 1 taxman or sometimes 2.
I know that is not prove, but it does illistrate a possible prophylactic.
"Did you red line units and use non army units (preferably elites) to defeat them? Especially when it comes to taking a city? Well anyways, thats how things go. Never the less I stick by my self limiting rules of never "building" armies or using armies to plunder terrain. (which made things more difficult in a previous war with Germany,)"
Duh, are you serious. Of course I redline where ever possible or else I used an army.
"Why do you suggest moving those three cities to wealth? Seems like a perfect waste to me. Workers, settlers, city improvements are all better then an extra 1 gpt a turn."
What do I want with more worklers, I had nothing for them to do except clean up pollution now and then and a few tiles were missing a road or rails.
Those tiles were not even being worked, so could wait a bit, no rush.
Long before the last Germany city fell, all roads where done and all rails and all pollution cleared. Well not the one tile that has a bunch of Zulu's on it.
Did not need more than a few settlers and I got them as I needed them. Why do I want to add to my maint with useless structures? What structures and where would you want to make them?
One gold is better than making one more gpt support and those little towns or corrupt towns would not net any more than 1 gold they were already making. The main thing is I did not want those towns to build anything.
Now could you speed things up in the war by making some atries or troops, maybe. I know I am not going to need it.
"Frankfort sell factory and Police station."
"Why? If I am going to turn around and eventually rebuild them anyways. More waste."
Not going to turn around and build them, do not ever build police stations as they are not needed and cost. The same for factories, why do I want a factory making pollution in a 100% corrupt city?
What good is a boost in shields when I still only net the same one shield I net without the factory? Anyway I am not going to build anything there, so all shields are a waste.
Give me the cash and let me remove the pollution generator. Now I do not have to pay maint on them either. I also sold off any coal plants and sometimes even courthouses.
"Upgrading is expensive, and I want every gold for tech stealing. I could see making one transport or something."
Winning is expensive and I told you long ago, if you did not start making transports you could not win. You will need to send nearly everything you have to Zululand to have any shot. You will not be able to wait to do it piecemeal.
They will have nukes, they could win the vote.
By the way to that end, I would now start gifting lux and techs to Persia. I do not know how they stand with Shaka, probably not friends, but why risk it?
Get him at least to be ambivalent.
"Speaking of, why did you get out of/stay out of, mobilization? If you want units like that, then be in mobilization during the war with Germany and make em. Then disband the old ones to rush new development afterwards."
Don't know about being in mob, I did not do any overt action to get out of it. Oh wait, I made peace with Persia and that ended it. Out of my control as there was no reaon to be in it anyway and I did not want to be at war with Persia.
They will be the last to go, if it got that far. Why do I want to spend time farting around with those crappy islands that will just be bombed or need massive air defense?
I also need them to not be too mad, so they will not vote for Shaka.
"Not both, the Russians are/were still good for another tech come modern. Would have been too hasty to eliminate them needlessly then."
Wrong, you cannot have them around they help Shaka by lowering his research cost. They had the only only that could be hooked up right now.
"Heres a new save, much advanced since the last one, I've nearly caught up tech wise. I set up trade and gifted Zululand lux so that I could plant a spy and steal tech immediately instead of safely, with Zululand being gracious if I fail I won't cause war. I might even manage two failures without war."
Gracious will not stop them from declaring war. Try telling them no when they ask for tribute and you will see.
"I plan to put a hospital in my cap in 2 turns when I get sanitation. I'm just prebuilding with the dam. I also plan to move my cap to leipzig. Its got a tourist wonder, and a science doubler wonder. You might notice I have a number of empty armies,(from MGL) I was thinking of loading them with calvary (not the defense of infantry, but the two extra movement points is really useful) but I wisely decided to wait on them and load them with tanks and a single mech infantry. Possibly keeping one or two in reserve for modern armor."
Sanitation is an optional tech, not bothering with it. NOt going to need hospitals. either I can hurt Shaka with what I have now or I cannot. Can't afford to delay much.
Not sure what good a scient wonder is when you are doing zero research. Not even sure if it will be working for you. NOt going to shift caps, never have.
Not going to commie, or anything, don't want anarchy. I will either get more towns or I won't. If I did, republic is fine.
The game will not last for you to have modern armor. calvds are nearly useless Vs Shaka. He long ago had MI and you are not going to take them down with cav armies, unless they are bombarded. If you do that what is the value of extra moves?
Calv armies are toast on defense at this stage. I have two and that is plenty for the task they will be ask to handle.
Infantry armies can take a lot of damage. Not as good as MI, but that is too far off. Could lose a vote anytime now.
Will post save after I get back from the club house.
"I know, but that was the second turn, and you spoke of getting more units up there so the armies could leave."
The main thing that relieves culture pressure is to not have any overlapping tile on your FAT cross. So jumping the next ciy will esae the pressure. You can place troops on those tiles as well.
"So does turning the foreign population into workers. And by getting them out of there it reduces flip risk."
You are not going to get any workers or settlers out while in resistance and that is the the most dangerous times. I find that if it is a size 12 with 10 left after capture and you can put all non resisters into jokers, you should be safe.
Now if this was deity or Sid, I would not risk it as their culture would be massive compared to mine. I did not check on it in this game, but I presume it was at least close.
You can easiely see the impact of entertainers. I loaded up a save and turned half the jokers into taxmen and boom it flipped. I dialed aroudn and foud that it did not flip if I had only 1 taxman or sometimes 2.
I know that is not prove, but it does illistrate a possible prophylactic.
"Did you red line units and use non army units (preferably elites) to defeat them? Especially when it comes to taking a city? Well anyways, thats how things go. Never the less I stick by my self limiting rules of never "building" armies or using armies to plunder terrain. (which made things more difficult in a previous war with Germany,)"
Duh, are you serious. Of course I redline where ever possible or else I used an army.
"Why do you suggest moving those three cities to wealth? Seems like a perfect waste to me. Workers, settlers, city improvements are all better then an extra 1 gpt a turn."
What do I want with more worklers, I had nothing for them to do except clean up pollution now and then and a few tiles were missing a road or rails.
Those tiles were not even being worked, so could wait a bit, no rush.
Long before the last Germany city fell, all roads where done and all rails and all pollution cleared. Well not the one tile that has a bunch of Zulu's on it.
Did not need more than a few settlers and I got them as I needed them. Why do I want to add to my maint with useless structures? What structures and where would you want to make them?
One gold is better than making one more gpt support and those little towns or corrupt towns would not net any more than 1 gold they were already making. The main thing is I did not want those towns to build anything.
Now could you speed things up in the war by making some atries or troops, maybe. I know I am not going to need it.
"Frankfort sell factory and Police station."
"Why? If I am going to turn around and eventually rebuild them anyways. More waste."
Not going to turn around and build them, do not ever build police stations as they are not needed and cost. The same for factories, why do I want a factory making pollution in a 100% corrupt city?
What good is a boost in shields when I still only net the same one shield I net without the factory? Anyway I am not going to build anything there, so all shields are a waste.
Give me the cash and let me remove the pollution generator. Now I do not have to pay maint on them either. I also sold off any coal plants and sometimes even courthouses.
"Upgrading is expensive, and I want every gold for tech stealing. I could see making one transport or something."
Winning is expensive and I told you long ago, if you did not start making transports you could not win. You will need to send nearly everything you have to Zululand to have any shot. You will not be able to wait to do it piecemeal.
They will have nukes, they could win the vote.
By the way to that end, I would now start gifting lux and techs to Persia. I do not know how they stand with Shaka, probably not friends, but why risk it?
Get him at least to be ambivalent.
"Speaking of, why did you get out of/stay out of, mobilization? If you want units like that, then be in mobilization during the war with Germany and make em. Then disband the old ones to rush new development afterwards."
Don't know about being in mob, I did not do any overt action to get out of it. Oh wait, I made peace with Persia and that ended it. Out of my control as there was no reaon to be in it anyway and I did not want to be at war with Persia.
They will be the last to go, if it got that far. Why do I want to spend time farting around with those crappy islands that will just be bombed or need massive air defense?
I also need them to not be too mad, so they will not vote for Shaka.
"Not both, the Russians are/were still good for another tech come modern. Would have been too hasty to eliminate them needlessly then."
Wrong, you cannot have them around they help Shaka by lowering his research cost. They had the only only that could be hooked up right now.
"Heres a new save, much advanced since the last one, I've nearly caught up tech wise. I set up trade and gifted Zululand lux so that I could plant a spy and steal tech immediately instead of safely, with Zululand being gracious if I fail I won't cause war. I might even manage two failures without war."
Gracious will not stop them from declaring war. Try telling them no when they ask for tribute and you will see.
"I plan to put a hospital in my cap in 2 turns when I get sanitation. I'm just prebuilding with the dam. I also plan to move my cap to leipzig. Its got a tourist wonder, and a science doubler wonder. You might notice I have a number of empty armies,(from MGL) I was thinking of loading them with calvary (not the defense of infantry, but the two extra movement points is really useful) but I wisely decided to wait on them and load them with tanks and a single mech infantry. Possibly keeping one or two in reserve for modern armor."
Sanitation is an optional tech, not bothering with it. NOt going to need hospitals. either I can hurt Shaka with what I have now or I cannot. Can't afford to delay much.
Not sure what good a scient wonder is when you are doing zero research. Not even sure if it will be working for you. NOt going to shift caps, never have.
Not going to commie, or anything, don't want anarchy. I will either get more towns or I won't. If I did, republic is fine.
The game will not last for you to have modern armor. calvds are nearly useless Vs Shaka. He long ago had MI and you are not going to take them down with cav armies, unless they are bombarded. If you do that what is the value of extra moves?
Calv armies are toast on defense at this stage. I have two and that is plenty for the task they will be ask to handle.
Infantry armies can take a lot of damage. Not as good as MI, but that is too far off. Could lose a vote anytime now.
Will post save after I get back from the club house.
TruePurple
Civ wanna B
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 1,367
Hmm? Its only that corrupt when its in resistance, afterwords and especially in communism it produces just fine.
Police stations make up there maintenances plus some easily in large well developed towns. Plus they give antiwar weariness, not that that applies to me with my gov.
Not true,
A. Every town produces a shield a turn, even if the whole towns in resistance.
B. chopping wood is a great way to rush workers, even if the whole town is in resistance/rioting. If there are no non resisting pops, a resisting pop unit WILL convert to a worker.
Why do you want me to be friends with persia? Persias no threat. Anyways I find if you have been at war with a nation, you can never get them past annoyed, I swear even if you were to give them a million gold and bring them from ancient to modern via tech gifts.
Oh, diplomatic victory? They can't vote for shaka if I destroy them. Anyways the zulu already triggered victory via the points like already mentioned.
You don't need to be at war with persia, your at war with germany. Just go into domestic adviser and switch back to mobilization again. So its not "out of your control" What do you mean no reason to be in it? The reason is to develop lots of troops via new tech fast.
It will when caught spying. Which is what I was talking about, not tribute.
Whats MI again? You can take down a full health veteran infantry or two with a calvary army. Even better against tanks who have half the defence. You can attack something then retreat to a town. But I get your point about infantry armies
~6 turns of anarchy which don't slow down any tech at all, is definitely worth 50% more income. Plus alot of towns with only 15-20 corruption is sweet too. Republic means war weariness, communism means better tech stealing. Though its a toss up over all.
But if you did switch to republic, moving the cap to one of the wonder cities makes sense because that area is also richer, the towns in the area would presumably become core cities and mean better income over all.
What do you mean they lower shaka (zulu I assume) research cost? Anyways I didn't need to take both russian towns to get the oil. Keeping one around allowed me to get a free modern tech latter on.
