First Game with CEG, way too much money

[Thibaulthc]

So I played my first game with CEG, CAT and CIN on BNW
I played Germany on Epic/Large
I tried emperor coz I thought it would be harder (usually play Immortal)

I started a tall empire with 3 cities.
The beginning was hard and challenging.

But then I started to earn way too much gold. I got allied with EVERY CS and took the lead in techs. AI never closed the gap.

I think that building maintenance is too low.

At the end of my game I had +700 gold, +1300 culture, +700 tourism and +2300 science.

AI never made any archeologist. And almost no GW. They had around 8 tourism each... That must be a bug.

Their city defense were so weak. Often around 45 while I had IronClads who caused around 80-150! damages. I was able to take any coastal city in 2-3 turns with some IronClads and a destroyer.

I think that too many units have a ranged attack. It makes no sense for some of them like the lancers IMHO. And it makes some of them way too powerful.

I liked the stories improvements, but AI often had to take the third option because a lack of money.

I had the Just War belief, and with the new flanking bonus and the usual ones, most of my attacks were at +140%.

AI often sent me unescorted workers. And bunches of Gatling Guns with only ONE soldier unit.

I took the cultural victory. But when I voted for the World Leader, I had 47 of the 38 necessary votes, I got elected but got no victory. Did I miss something there ?

About Germany, Hanse are OP and Panzers are really powerful.

Some yield bugs (especially atolls). Show 2food in the city screen, but 2prod and 4food when mouse over.

Some weird things with the production and culture numbers also.

Destroyers upgrading in Carriers is a nonsense IMO

Despite what I just wrote, I really like this mod. And you guys are constantly aiming to improve it. Thank you very much.


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[Gokudo01]

Nice, un francais.

which versions are you running ?
Do you have any other mod running ? some like smart AI can create issues.

I've never got this kind of problems so it would be good to give more details. I usually play standard/standard.

 

[WileyNg]

At the end of my game I had +700 gold, +1300 culture, +700 tourism and +2300 science.

Did you build many wonders? I think Thal's crippled AI's wonder-building favors intentionally. Maybe its too much...

AI never made any archeologist. And almost no GW. They had around 8 tourism each... That must be a bug.

You are right. In the vanilla or previous versions, they still produce archaeologists. So I guess it has something to do with the AI's bankruptcy.

I think that too many units have a ranged attack. It makes no sense for some of them like the lancers IMHO. And it makes some of them way too powerful.

I have reported this issue in http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=524251


Generally speaking I agree with you that this mod, with stories' "great" tile improvement, trading bonus and ease of building wonders, has become too easy to play. Last game I played on Deity and I still won without any difficulty. That being said, I think these are a couple of things that need improvement:

1) AI's bankruptcy; it causes them unable to pick a good story path. It cripples them from building any units or building too.

2) Wonder-building favors; I knew Thal had it tuned down but I would like to say that if the player really want to rush wonders, they could build about 70-80% of the wonders in the game, even on Deity level. I checked after game that AI should have had enough to complete a wonder in few turns but they picked other things to produce. It obviously results in the player's hegemony.

3) city-capturing ability; Range units and melee units balance, the team is working on it.

4) AI's Aggression
AIs behave too peacefully and predictably. They make friends everywhere. I just don't like that too many positive modifier in the diplomatic screen. if I am to avoid things that would set them off, they would never declare war on players. In my last game with 14 civs in Huge Communitas map, even among AIs, there can be literally no war throughout the ancient, classical and medieval eras. I think some major diplomatic modifiers have to change to impact relationship really really bad.
For instance, in ancient and classical times, the scarcity of resource historically made different civs to declare war on each other. So the spoil of war should be relatively much larger than what players can get by trade routes.
In medieval and Renaissance times, Religion must play a huge factor in diplomacy. In Communitas I knew the AIs are not cheating anymore, but that makes them very bad in cultural and religion expansion. They are making much less great prophet and missionary.
In industrial times, the "they coveted your lands" demodifier need to be tuned up because that's what happened in colonial times. Enlightened philosopher John Locke once rooted for a "Just War" with spin-off like the acquisition of slaves and exotic goods. We have to know that strong powers in the past did't like to make friends. They'd like to go to war.
In modern and atomic times, the ideology difference demodifier should no doubt offset modifiers like "they shared intrigue with us! (which is very easy)", "we shared the same religion! (Germany and Rome was also Christian in WW2)", "you free their workers 2000 years ago!(LOL)".....etc
The above also applies for world congress choice in atomic times and after.

 

[ExpiredReign]

The result from 1 game with a new mod is hardly a large enough base from which to gauge the status of it's progress. There are simply too many variables at play, that you didn't mention, that are at work here.

As to wonders, I have tried games recently where I went into it as a wonder whore, specifically chose Ramesses to do so, and I ended up with most of them. Then again as Napoleon I tried to be a cultural magnet and simply couldn't build them quick enough, always beaten to that prized wonder by someone else. So there is no hard and fast rule here of: wonders are too easy.

Wars. Again I have not seen a decrease in the number of wars fought. Japan and the Mongols are still as crazy as before. Russia and Rome can turn on you in an instant.
Having said that there are major changes being made to the AI which might explain SOME of the quirks that do occur.

Some of the other minor points you make are valid and are always being evaluated.

 

[Thibaulthc]

Wonders: right, with, I've been able to build a lot of them. Middle game I built half of the world wonders. (Me 9 Siam 7 others 2-3) then because of my tech lead I built ALL of the next wonders.

Bankruptcy : AI being broke most of the time explains a lot.

Capturing cities: I forgot mention that: when capturing a city with mercy, I had no revolution at all! Probably a bug i guess, even if I'm familiar/popular/influent.

Aggression: I've been declared war one time only through the whole game. AI asked me to declare war on another AI much more often.

My report only aims to help improving the mod, I'm not just whining of course.

Thank you got reading and answering. Sorry for my grammar.


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[ExpiredReign]

Your input is welcome.

Grammar? I wasn't aware I was correcting your grammar. If so, have a three page essay on the best way to handle AI aggression on my desk by Friday.

 

[WileyNg]

Your input is welcome.

Grammar? I wasn't aware I was correcting your grammar. If so, have a three page essay on the best way to handle AI aggression on my desk by Friday.

Haha!

 

[WileyNg]

The result from 1 game with a new mod is hardly a large enough base from which to gauge the status of it's progress. There are simply too many variables at play, that you didn't mention, that are at work here.

As to wonders, I have tried games recently where I went into it as a wonder whore, specifically chose Ramesses to do so, and I ended up with most of them. Then again as Napoleon I tried to be a cultural magnet and simply couldn't build them quick enough, always beaten to that prized wonder by someone else. So there is no hard and fast rule here of: wonders are too easy.

Wars. Again I have not seen a decrease in the number of wars fought. Japan and the Mongols are still as crazy as before. Russia and Rome can turn on you in an instant.
Having said that there are major changes being made to the AI which might explain SOME of the quirks that do occur.

Some of the other minor points you make are valid and are always being evaluated.

Expired. I in the past played Venice for 4-5 games, all in deity difficulty, Epic speed and Huge Communitas Map. I went for wonders and city states support for a cultural victory in all games. And I believe I have reason to say that achieving cultural or diplomatic victory is very easy and boring as there are no twist nor surprises in the game. AI simply doesn't have a clue that you are winning.
Given the difficulty in making AIs a more humane character, that's why I suggest a "major twist in different era" to give AIs a more random hostilities/friendliness with/against players. England, France, and Germany historic relationships provide us notable historic examples. They sometimes fought against each other or sometimes form alliance with each other due to different reasons and circumstances in different era.

Is it possible to amplified some major diplomatic boost/ penalties in each eras so that my neighboring AI, regardless of their leader's personalities, won't be my friend for 4000 years? For instance: my neighbor Portugal went to war with me in ancient times. We became friends in classical times because I spread my religion to them. But once in industrial times they expanded their territory a lot so their land surrounded my lone city of Venice. They went war with me because of the very negative demodifier "they covet our lands". We had war for two hundred years until Germany from the north adopted autocracy while we both adopted Freedom and we decided to stay friends again because of the very positive "we shared the same ideology", But in modern era Venice controls most delegates in the world congress and start manipulating congress result. Portugal went to war with me again because of the very negative modifier "they don't like our world congress proposal"

Right now if I accumulate enough diplomatic boost, one or two penalties won't destroy friendship. It goes vice versa. That's why I asked for amplifying the major diplomatic boost/ penalties so that the modifiers in the past eras would no longer hold sway in current eras.

Please forgive my clumsy writing.

 

[ExpiredReign]

@WileyNg your criticisms about the diplomacy side of the game are 100% valid, however as most/all of them are handled by the c++ routines in the DLL they are, for the time being, beyond the scope of this mod.
May I suggest you try Gazebo's excellent City State Diplomacy. He has produced a masterpiece of work and is constantly looking for ways to improve it. Both mods have been working in concord for sometime now and we maintain a level of cross-mod support that means you (the user) will never feel left behind.

Finally, Thalassicus has recently expressed interest in also making a DLL mod to work alongside CEP, though it is only expressions of interest at this time.
Perhaps in the future ALL these annoying AI quirks will be ironed out. Probably two days before the release of Civ VI.