First impressions: Wonders still suck (big time).

[Ryika]

/edit: More detailed opinions about the wonders can be found in later posts in this thread. See:

Post #31 - Gorb
Post #49 - Ryika (That's me!)
Acken's Video about the Patch

If you want to give your detailed opinion, feel free to do so - I'll like your post here as soon as I see it.

__________________________

Alright, some comparisons first.

The Gene Vault:

Pre-Patch:
205 Production
+4 Food
+1 Production
+10% Growth in all cities

Post-Patch:
250 Production (YES, IT'S MORE EXPENSIVE!)
All cities start with a free Worker Unit

Was good. Now it's complete garbage. (And that's not only because that wonder actually becomes available AFTER the initial expansion-phase)

Ectogenesis Pod:

Pre-Patch
300 Production
+3 Food
+3 Production
+1 Food from Farms

Post-Patch:
400 Production (YES, IT'S ALSO MORE EXPENSIVE NOW!)
1 Food for every 4 population in this city

Was good. Now it's complete garbage.

Xenomalleum:

Pre-Patch
1050 Production (for what already was a really bad wonder)
+7 Energy
+2 Energy from Generators

Post-Patch
1250 Production (yes, once again it's more expensive than it was before!)
+5 Petroleum, Titanium, Geothermal

...because what we need at that point in the game is spending production to get even more resources? How does that make sense? Well, to be fair: If I sell all of these resources that wonder now gives +15 Energy per turn! unfortunately, as it's a late-game-tech that will never pay for itself and using energy focus (which is already really bad by itself) would probably still be the better idea if I wanted to convert production into Energy (which I clearly don't want to do at that or any other point in the game).

It's the same for most of the other wonders. They're more expensive(!) - did I miss that people asked for them to be harder to build? My impression was that people want them to be CHEAPER so they're actually worth building. And they give LESS bonuses. So overall, while Wonders were not worth building before the patch we can now happily ignore them!

Well, except for the Memetwork (and maybe the Drone Sphere) which may potentially be the new go-to wonder for everyone who's trying to get fast finishing times on victories that need the Lasercom Satellite.

Overall it seems like these wonders are really badly balanced and mostly not worth building. If you're not sure how to balance stuff, why not just ask the players? We'll happily give our opinions, ideas and suggestions. Such a shame... because the bonuses you created seem really interesting... but with the overall package of most wonders - how would I ever build them in any decent strategy?

 

[Gorbles]

I heard asking if someone is competent at the job he (or she) is doing is a great way to get them to listen respectfully to your own suggestions.

Seriously, this is never the right way to approach dialogue. You may think it is, but in reality people won't give you the time of day, if you don't give them it as well.

It does suck that they've completely replaced the previous bonuses, however. I wouldn't have thought that'd be the case. I'd imagine the new bonuses are meant to make up for the Production cost to build, but only time will tell. Will see what effect building these ingame has, as supposed to a theoretical "now is garbage" statement.

 

[Victus75]

I was afraid that the wonders would be more expensive, because they feel like they have effects "worth" going after now. However with the yields dropped, having just the special effects seem to be WTF? Disappointing.

Edit: are any of the Wonders less expensive to make post-patch?

 

[Acken]

Haha I was sure the bonus would replace the old ones but didn't expect increased costs.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

[duplicate]

 

[GAGA Extrem]

CURSE YOU Ryika!!
I wanted to make a thread about wonders...

Anyway, what I had written:

Is it just me, or did several wonders actually get less viable with the Winter patch?

Not only have the old base yields been scrapped, but the patch also added a lot of additional ressource requirements.

Here are some examples:
Ectogenesis Pod: Requires 2 Geothermal
Markov Eclipse: Requires 4 Firaxite
Armasail: Requires 5 Floatstone
Xenodrome: Requires 5 Xenomass

So beelining wonders is much harder due to the ressource requirements. Even worse, there are several wonders that are on an affinity tech, but require a different ressource (e.g. Drone Sphere is part of a Harmony tech and requires Floatstone, Bytegeist is part of a Harmony tech and requires Firaxite).

As for wonder build cost, I haven't found a recognizable pattern. Many seem to be roughly twice as costly as buildings of the same tier, but then again we have some odd exceptions like Promethean (1050 vs. 350 for Gene Garden) or Markov Eclipse (1600?!).

So... Not sure what to make of that. If I am playing an affinity victory I usually avoid any tech detour past the early game that isn't granting affinity points. Maybe trade will become more important now if you want wonders?

Your thought, fellow players?

 

[Ryika]

Edit: are any of the Wonders less expensive to make post-patch?

Yes, the Drone Sphere (one of the few wonders that are now BETTER than before!) is actually 100 production less (550 instead of 650).

All the others either cost more or the same as before.

CURSE YOU Ryika!!
I wanted to make a thread about wonders...

I did my best to type as fast as I could. :> Allyourthreadsarebelongtome.

/edit: And yes, I haven't even factored in the Resource requirements...

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Well, at least it makes the game easier to play:
Just ignore wonders completely now and convert Science instead!

I don't even want to do my post-patch game now...

 

[SahintheFalcon]

Well, you just posted the three wonders that probably needed a nerf. Gene Vault was built too quickly imo, and its bonus was perhaps slightly overpowered. Ectogenesis pod was definitely overpowered. Xenomalleum was alright, but definitely on the stronger side.

Remember that Beyond Earth is a more expansion-focused game than Civ 5 (one of the reasons why I love BE and disliked Civ 5), so the global bonuses that these wonders provide really scaled up with the size of your empire.

Most of the other changes are quite welcome.

 

[tedeviatings]

Ouch.
I'll probably be rushing Gene Vault at least once just to give it a shot. But if my intuition is any indication it's not going to be worth it.
As for Ectogenisis and Xeno... I'm stunned in disbelieve. Both wonder effects are really not good from my perspective and I wasn't going to build any of those if not for a serious cost reduction. And then they made them more expensive. Didn't see that one coming...

PS: During the making of this post I actually checked once to make sure it wasn't 01.04. yet...

Edit: Ecto also costs Geothermal? I just don't understand...

Also agree with the guy that said that being insulting isn't a good way to make people listen to you even if you make good points.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

No.
Just no.
The Gene Vault is OK, many others are not. I would say they have ruined slightly more than they fixed. Have you looked at Deep Mempry ? Used to be one of the best wonders and about the only one worth researching a top tier leaf tech. now it gives 1 culture per 3 population in one city. New Terran Myth could have beenuseful, but ti doesn't grant culture from internal trade routes.
I'd really like to see the whiteboards from when they were discussing balance.

I'm uninstalling the game now and check back when the next patch comes. Jesus Christ !

Edit_ I checked the tech web again to be sure. Deep Memory even costs 4 Firaxite now. Who the hell is going to build that ?

 

[Browd]

Moderator Action: Threads merged

 

[SupremacyKing2]

now it gives 1 culture per 3 population in one city.

According to the patch notes, it's 1 culture per 3 pop in EVERY city. That's potentially a lot of culture. I think 4 firaxite is reasonable.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Moderator Action: Threads merged

Thanks!

Well, you just posted the three wonders that probably needed a nerf. Gene Vault was built too quickly imo, and its bonus was perhaps slightly overpowered. Ectogenesis pod was definitely overpowered. Xenomalleum was alright, but definitely on the stronger side.

Remember that Beyond Earth is a more expansion-focused game than Civ 5 (one of the reasons why I love BE and disliked Civ 5), so the global bonuses that these wonders provide really scaled up with the size of your empire.

Most of the other changes are quite welcome.

I'd argue the old Gene Vault was the only Wonder that was "really" on a wonder-level powerlevel (as in: so good that you want it most of the time if you can squeeze it in your build order). Ectogenesis Pod acutally wasn't even that great for non-purity players, so I usually skipped that one.

If the game would last 350+ turns, some of these wonders would actually be decent. But as it is, you are actually better of converting science (if you go for an affinity victory). Maybe that's the big misunderstanding here - they don't expect the game to be over around turn 215?

According to the patch notes, it's 1 culture per 3 pop in EVERY city. That's potentially a lot of culture. I think 4 firaxite is reasonable.

Ingame description clearly states THIS city. I'll check the XML files to see what's true.
EDIT: Checking the XML the effect seems limited to the building itself (so only works for the one city where it is build).

 

[Ryika]

According to the patch notes, it's 1 culture per 3 pop in EVERY city. That's potentially a lot of culture. I think 4 firaxite is reasonable.

Ingame it says 1 Culture for every 3 population in this city. Game files also confirm that - it uses the same code as the new Ectogenesis Pod does. So no, it's just an error in the patch notes.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Ingame it says 1 Culture for every 3 population in this city. Game files also confirm that - it uses the same code as the new Ectogenesis Pod does. So no, it's just an error in the patch notes.

Yikes. I think it really should be in every city.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

According to the patch notes, it's 1 culture per 3 pop in EVERY city. That's potentially a lot of culture. I think 4 firaxite is reasonable.

According to the tooltip in the tech web it is "in this city".
But honestly, I don't even care any more.
I guess the next patch will nerf specialist yields and make cooperation agreements a prerequisite for resources.

 

[Joch]

the patch just came out, give me a break.

At least "play" the game before complaining its "broken".

 

[GoodSarmatian]

But the game didn't just come out, and one of the main complaints since launch has been that wonders are too weak. I don't need to play to see that nerfing the good ones doesn't adress that issue.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

But the game didn't just come out, and one of the main complaints since launch has been that wonders are too weak. I don't need to play to see that nerfing the good ones doesn't adress that issue.

But some of the weak wonders have been buffed too.