1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[R&F] First Look: Robert the Bruce | Scotland

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Nightsong, Jan 24, 2018.

  1. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,079
    Location:
    Abroad
    And while that's fair, my main issue is the association of golf courses and happiness-dependent science with Robert the Bruce.

    (On a separate note and by way of trying to understand Firaxis' thematic thinking on the Scottish Civ bonus, why does Scotland need to be happy to get extra Great Scientist points? Wouldn't high loyalty-dependent science bonuses make more sense?)
     
    j51 likes this.
  2. Josephias

    Josephias Emperor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,010
    Just in case some do not notice the smiley, the irrefutability of this statement made me research a bit (that's the useful part of being a Civ fan!), to confirm why it is called Scottish Enlightment rather than British enlightment. And while it is true the union with England made it posible (basically by moving out all the politicians to London, and giving wealth input), the improvement on science and technique was indeed specific of Scotland, as it was better prepared (greater university coverage) and influenced by previous ties with France. Therefore, we can admit is a purely Scottish phenomenon apt to be used in the unique Scotland context.
     
    CivLuvah, Thormodr and SammyKhalifa like this.
  3. j51

    j51 Blue Star Cadet

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,185
    Location:
    Ping Island
    I didn't say Scotland isn't worthy of inclusion as a civ itself, in fact I was looking forward to the reveal today. I just think more thought could have gone into it's design. Other than the civ ability and the admittedly awesome animation for Robert the Bruce, there isn't much here that's interesting. That's why it makes sense to merge it with the English. They have already been given a very British slant and they lack a good civ ability, which Scotland has.

    I think all the civs for the expansion have been good choices, even if I'm gonna miss the Inca, Ottoman, Mali, Ethiopia, Maya, and Carthage. On the other hand, I think poor design has been a problem with almost all the civs in this expansion, especially when measured next to the excellent job they did with the DLC civs. We know they can do better.
     
  4. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Messages:
    366
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm actually quite excited to play this Civ, they seem super fun! One thing though: shouldn't Robert's ability deal with Reconquest casus bellis instead of Liberation? I mean, he's famous for driving the England out of Scotland, so his ability should probably be about reclaiming Scottish cities instead of helping his allies take theirs back. It also shares the niche with Australia, so it would give a bit of diversity to the new wave of casus belli abilities. Maybe it wouldn't be as good in practice, but I dunno; seems more appropriate.
     
  5. Guatenadian

    Guatenadian Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    329
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    Im actually happy with the Scottish Civ, Golf courses are cheesy as heck and I would've preferred a Scottish distillery if they wanted a UI that gave an amenity. Robert doesn't look as caricatured as other leaders and he looks pretty cool with the Scottish lion, he doesn't resemble Frederick too much which was my concern with the leader design. Its an ok Civ, not one that I was particularly excited for but I would be happy to play them or have them as my neighbour. Capital city could be better but meh, I'll live with it.

    Dont be worried about the colours, Australia has gone through how many border colour changes now? My point is that when Portugal comes there's a good chance they'll switch the Civ border colour.
     
  6. ombak

    ombak Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    169
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    You keep repeating this but the whole point of having a LUA and CUA is that you can do different things.

    Sometimes, perhaps many times, the CUA is going to naturally tie-in with the Leader, whether because there aren't many other things to do, or because the team designs it that way or any number of reasons.

    But there's no rule that says the CUA should reflect the leader (or one of the leaders if there are multiples) and why should there be? They're entirely different things.
     
  7. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    4,886
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Yeah, I don’t get it. Civ VI is very diverse and when all is said and done, will be the most diverse out of any Civ game. Some people just have an axe to grind, I suppose. Until the game is 51% female and 10% Caucasian, it will always be that way, sadly.

    I will enjoy playing Scotland. They suit my play style. :)

    For all those that are grumbling, I am sure there will be mods to easily change Scotland.
     
    dc1215 and Alexander's Hetaroi like this.
  8. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,163
    Location:
    Canada
    I think it's more "clannish" to look out for friends and allies than just himself.
     
  9. ferretbacon

    ferretbacon Obsessor

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,531
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Texas
    Yes! That's what I think. Reconquering your own cities would make much more sense as an ability for Robert.
     
    Jewelrunna and j51 like this.
  10. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,079
    Location:
    Abroad
    You can easily have different LUAs and CUAs that complement each other in ways making thematic sense. See, e.g., Scythia, Mongolia, China, Egypt, Rome, Spain, Greece. You can still get the requisite diversity and options for your gameplay without hampering the noble struggle of Robert the Bruce with golf courses....
     
    evanaurora likes this.
  11. ombak

    ombak Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    169
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    As I think I made pretty clear in my reply to you, I agree.

    But they open up the possibility of doing entirely different things and the insistence that they must be related in any given Civ is a bit much.

    We get it, you would like a CUA that was more related to the leader in this case.
     
  12. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    5,609
    Now for gameplay purposes I might agree that it's better to have abilities that complement each other a little more.

    Thematically it doesn't really bother me.
     
    Eagle Pursuit likes this.
  13. Vahnstad

    Vahnstad King

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2014
    Messages:
    912
    Location:
    Low countries
    Come on. Next time just don't add European civs, and than maybe you would be happy.

    It will never be good for the haters.
     
    CivLuvah and Thormodr like this.
  14. Sagax

    Sagax Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,209
    That ship sailed long ago. Qin had nothing to do with Chinese ingenuity, Barbarossa couldn’t even imagine U-boats, and Hojo didn’t live long enough to witness Meiji restoration. The list goes on.

    I am actually very okay with civs and leaders being a bit out of sync. Makes me feel like every leader is a unique individual that leaves his/her own mark in the civilization they lead - and it plays into the multiple leader setup. As long as LUAs don’t bring anti-synergy.
     
    CivLuvah, dc1215, WillowBrook and 9 others like this.
  15. MisterBoomBoom

    MisterBoomBoom King

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    667
    "...without hampering the noble struggle of Robert the Bruce with golf courses." :rolleyes:
     
  16. Tiger Genocide

    Tiger Genocide Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Messages:
    333
    Gender:
    Male
    I can see it now.

    Arizona guy: Come play golf with me buddy! "What?" "You don't want to play in a desert?" "Come on! I will show you how to putt a scorpion and eagle a rattlesnake. It will be fun!"
     
  17. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,443
    Location:
    Indiana
    Well the golf courses are meant to be associated with the civ, not the leader. Scotland is where golf was invented.
     
    Thormodr likes this.
  18. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    15,527
    [QUOTE="Sagax, post: 15005490, member: 251726]"Barbarossa couldn’t even imagine U-boats[/QUOTE]

    It's rather ironic that he has U-boats when you consider the cause of his death.
     
    Zaarin, CivLuvah, Siptah and 11 others like this.
  19. ombak

    ombak Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    169
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    I was playing Germany last night and thinking of that very thing, can't believe I forgot it here!
     
  20. MisterBoomBoom

    MisterBoomBoom King

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    667
    Having shooed off both rattlesnakes and scorpions (as well as quite a few alligators) in my humble, non-hampering, pursuit of the great game of golf I found this hilarious!
     
    Tiger Genocide likes this.

Share This Page