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First Look: Sumeria

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Hutchy27, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. Jaybe

    Jaybe civus fanaticus Supporter

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    As the Romans, whenever I find Sumeria nearby, I anticipate rushing to acquire my Legions.
    Then it will be a time for "Sumeria delenda est." :cool:
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  2. Ivan Hunger

    Ivan Hunger Chieftain

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    With Civ 6, I feel like some civilizations were designed top down, where they start with a real world tribe/empire/nation, then have the developers pitch mechanical themes based on that group's history.

    But I think other civilizations are designed bottom up, where they start with a playstyle archetype, then have the developers pitch different ideas on what historical faction could match that playstyle.

    I think Sumeria falls into the latter category. Firaxis wanted a cooperative/loyal civilization, and had the developers pitch different ideas on how to accomplish that. They probably got lots of suggestions. One of the devs, maybe half-jokingly, asked if they could do a version of Sumeria with that theme, using The Epic of Gilgamesh as a basis. Because the idea was so novel, or perhaps just amusing, that's the one they ended up going with.

    That would explain why Sumeria's theme isn't agriculture or walls or whatever other thing would be more historically appropriate. The cooperation/loyalty playstyle was the starting point, and the rest was designed around that.
     
  3. Uberfrog

    Uberfrog Warlord

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    Also it's not really that Sumer did walls and agriculture better than anyone else, just earlier. These bonuses, however historical, would not actually be interesting to play. Agriculture is already available at the start of the game, and getting extra food from farms is as boring an ability as they come. Same with building walls earlier than Masonry.

    Civ VI's Sumeria may be largely based on a work of fiction, but it sounds a lot more interesting to play with and against, and still manages to represent Sumer getting an early start!
     
  4. dturtle1

    dturtle1 Chieftain

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    Firstly, Why do you say that Civs, who have reasons to not build riverside farms will fall off? Is it, by chance based on the CIv 5 mechanic of Civil Service provide extra food to river farms ? Which does not exist AFAIK in Civ6.

    There is no benefit of placing farms next to rivers AFAIK, there is however quite a few unique Improvements, Wonders, and of course the Commercial District that you do want to place next to a river as well as the city centre itself. What this does is give the player something to choose... Should i build an extra Ziggurat or should i save it for Hanging Gardens etc. Your example of Egypt is absolutely notorious for this, everything is better next to a river. Is up to you what you choose to put there.

    The Ziggurat is as bland as pretty much every other UI that provides to secondary Yields, powerful yes but also restricted. Continuing with the Ziggurat and science theme. You may choose it to get out of the Ancient Period Quicker but you can always get more Ancient Techs whilst still head into the Classical Age at roughly the same time as other Civs. Does this not suit Sumer, known for pretty much inventing every Ancient Tech? :)

    I honestly got no idea what Sumer the Civ is known for apart from technology...last time I studied it was in Grade 8(first yr High School, roughly 2 decades ago :old:, ;)

    The ULA is pretty cool IMO because it does affect the A.I, Like Cleopatra's Bride of the Mediterranean, That makes the A.I more likely to trade with her, no? Or what about Gandhi's ability where His opponents suffer War weariness, that also affects the Decision Making of The A.I. Gilgamesh's ability is more gamey...i'll give you that but it sounds fun.
    Think 3 Civs on one land mass-You, Someone else, and Gilgamesh....You know someones is getting ganged up on, the question is are you gonna be bully or are you going to be righteous bringer of justice.... knowing that Gilgamesh will jump in anyway you goad the other Civ into declaring war :eek:... Where you use the mastery of terrain and sound battlefield tactics to defeat both of them and take ALL of the Cities :) . Idk it brings such a different feel to the game that it is worth a little mythology.

    The UA seems to also go with Gilgamesh due to the name but it could also reference the fact that Sumer was rather inclusive of other cultures and this inclusivity may explain why they were so advanced for their time. Maybe they were the ones that first realised that working together is more productive and efficient than working apart.(total theoretical ramblings on my part :))
     
  5. Amrunril

    Amrunril Warlord

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    It's true we don't know yet, whether farms get a bonus from being next to rivers (and I'm starting to worry that they won't). I certainly hope they will, however, as it's a mechanic that fits with the real world and does a great job of furthering the developers' goal of making terrain matter. I also don't think it's a problem for other things to compete with farms for river tiles, it just seems backwards for Egypt and Sumer to be the least likely civs, based on opportunity costs, to put farms there.

    The difference is that Cleopatra and Ghandi's abilities give the AI (or any player) a reason to behave differently. Gilgamesh's simply forces the AI to play differently despite lacking any actual incentive to do so.
     
  6. Moriboe

    Moriboe Chieftain

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    I'm rather disappointed by this civ, the focus on Gilgamesh in particular. Maybe I'll mod in Ur-Nammu or Shulgi as alternative leader, with a culture focus, and rebaptize Gilgamesh as Sargon of Akkad. Not a perfect fit but passable.

    I also had preferred the ziggurat as unique building; it should be at the center of a city. Did any city have more than one of these? It does look nice on a map though. As others have pointed out the bonusses are bland.
     
  7. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    Rivers are important for freshwater. I don't think farms get a boost from rivers but after feudalism you want very large farmlands as each farm get a minor adjacency bonus with other farms (0.5 food for each adjacent farm).
     
  8. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    Ziggurats kind of were the center of a city. Some had two or more, like Uruk, which grew out of more than one settlement and thus had more than one 'center' if you want to put it like that. But out in the green? no.
     
  9. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    Science and culture, progress in both tech trees are not bland by any means;)
     
  10. mzprox

    mzprox Chieftain

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    Just wana note that after watching some gameplays I think Sumer's ability to get goody hut from barbarian villages will be quite strong. Barbs seems to respawn quite frequently even in tiny fog of war areas.
     
  11. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    + you can get boost for later techs from the barb/goody huts. At least until industrial.
    + you can swim in relics in the late game (now, what if you've chosen the triple relics belief?)
    + AI declares Joint Wars, so you can probably persuade them to do it with you. And the ULA is not completely obsolete when played by the AI.
    + Levy CS military for half price might be more useful than I thought, looking at some larger armies of them that I saw in different LPs. You might need some gold to upgrade, though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  12. thecrazyscot

    thecrazyscot Spiffy

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    Especially if you start near one of the poles, then you can just leave some of that useless snow unexplored for barbarian camp farming.
     
  13. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Barb camps can spawn in fog of war; and in fact at least in current build, if you pay attention to fog of war you can tell when a new barb camp appears within it; so optimal is in fact to explore that useless snow (after the more useful areas)
    Yes, after exploring you can pull back; but unless you enjoy the cities closest to the poles having their improvements pillaged / trade units near them destroyed / districts being damaged, be sure to have some military present near these cities.
     
  14. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Warlord

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    1. Barbs can spawn outside the fog of war in Civ6. Marbozir got them like this.
    2. With this and slow natural expansion it's possible to get barbs in very unexpected places - in Marbozir case the camp was on the border of the capital.
     
  15. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    The only barbs I saw spawning within visibility of the player in Quill's Rome videos (and he didn't adequately keep fog busted) were in the following two cases:
    1. The barb camp spawned in fog of war but units spawned on visible tiles next to it because it just over the edge.
    2. He was on the way to the camp that had recently spawned a scout, but didn't make it back and saw the swarm of barb units that got triggered from barb scout unit seeing a players city.

    In both cases, the barb camp was spawned in fog of war even though some of the units were created in visible tiles.
     
  16. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Warlord

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    Yes, sorry. I've just checked the Marbozir video and Athens's border expanded right after the barb camp appeared, not before. So yes, it spawned in a 2-tile piece of fog of war :)
     
  17. Kangaroo495

    Kangaroo495 Chieftain

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