First Monarch Game - Willem van Oranje

Nilmerf

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Feel free to shadow if you like, I'll be playing my first Monarch game under ideal settings.. a Terra map with the Dutch Empire, and what looks to be a good starting location. Never played the Dutch before, but Willem's traits (Cre/Fin) as well as the UU and UB should be very good for this map. Note that I play on Epic speed as Normal seems to go by too quick.



First off, settling 1NW seems a good option, as it gives Amsterdam a monster tile to work under right away.
 

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Ghpstage

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First off, settling 1NW seems a good option, as it gives Amsterdam a monster tile to work under right away.
Don't settle on the gold, that would be a tremendous waste of 6:commerce:!

Settle in place, use the corn and a farmed floodplain to feed the 3 goldmines with a little extra food for growth. If the rest of your local region is as nice as your start your in for an extremely easy first Monarch game :goodjob:
 

Nilmerf

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Don't settle on the gold, that would be a tremendous waste of 6:commerce:!

Settle in place, use the corn and a farmed floodplain to feed the 3 goldmines with a little extra food for growth. If the rest of your local region is as nice as your start your in for an extremely easy first Monarch game :goodjob:
Right, I realized that after I posted and settled in place. After playing through a bit, finding two protective neighbours plus two belligerent ones rules out too much warmongering in the early going.
 

Shurdus

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Are you going to post updates? Which leaders are we talking about? I find Charley is usually not too unit-happy and can still very well be taken out early with a little bit of preparation, as can the Chinese.

Which are the 'belligerent ones'? Maybe you can bribe an AI into declaring on another AI and you can jump in the dogpile when the AI's stack is committed elsewhere. Remember that screenies and a saved game are worth more that a thousand words if you want feedback!
 

kossin

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With this leader and start, you can probably safely stick to ~6 cities, get a big tech lead, and then crush them with Drafting (rifles).
 

Shurdus

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With this leader and start, you can probably safely stick to ~6 cities, get a big tech lead, and then crush them with Drafting (rifles).
That may be true, but what would you prefer... Getting 12 cities at tech parity or grabbing 6 and remaining ahead of the curb?

In my experience grabbing 12 is better because it denies the AI a lot of production potential. Also with that capitol he can fund whatever expansion he sees fit.

Whatever may be the case, we need to see an update and screenshots/saved game.
 

kossin

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Depends of course :)

I can't say for sure which is best since we don't know anything of the surroundings...

On Monarch, 12 cities would probably be better though since the upkeep isn't that high.
 

Shurdus

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I would even say that on immortal 12 is better if that meand denying the AI valuable land while grabbing it for yourself. Upkeep is typically something that you will overcome soon enough and with enough workers the cities will be humming in no time, contributing to your empire's glory.

But I get a little bit sidetracked. More info please! :)
 

kossin

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12 in how much time? Too much too early will crash your economy and put you behind...

Blocking and backfilling is a great option if possible.
 

Nilmerf

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Okay, here it is.. played to 700 BC.

Spoiler :


Managed to get the Pyramids with help from stone and chopping. Utrecht with the stone/rice/bronze will be my unit production city while The Hague will be my GP farm with pig, fish, and banana. It's pretty tight with the other civs, and I've given tribute to Augustus and Ragnar to keep them happy. Next goal for expansion will be the horses/wheat. How many cities should I build before sailing for the new world? Will be hard to take out these guys as they are either protective or warmongers (except Hatshepsut).
 

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Shurdus

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Oh boy... Going for the mids was probably a mistake since there is little land available and the hammers were probably better used building settlers and workers. Your cities also seem to be rather small for the date. You should aim to have about 4 or 5 cities by that time, which would have been very possible if you had foregone the mids.

Do not think of gunning for the new world in terms of 'how many cities does it take on this continent. Rather think of it in terms of how much time you have left to be there first and take all the prime spots. Gunning for an astronomy monopoly with the dutch UU seems like a doable thing. Grabbing it from liberalism might be very possible, especially on monarch. But first get yourself out of that deadlock! The AI seems to box you in rather fast and we cannot have that. Expand! The tripple gold should pay for that just fine.
 

Jehoshua

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5-6 cities built yourself and later get to 9 - 12 through conquest. don;t forget to beeline tech and backfill or you'll become backwards and easy pickings for those belligerent neighbors you apparently have.

At this date you appear to be rather small so expansiuon is a priority! And it looks like your being boxed in.
 

Nilmerf

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940 AD, the game seems to be in hand.

Spoiler :


Going for Pyramids instead of settlers turned out to be good, it's been a saviour for my economy and allowed me to grab a tech lead. Fought a couple quick wars to destroy encroaching cities, then made a heroic defensive effort against Gilgamesh. Ganged up on Augustus with Ragnar, vassalizing Rome in the process. Beelining liberalism-astronomy and it's smooth sailing from there.

What I've found with Monarch is that war is a bit more necessary than before, even with someone like Willem who does not have traits or unique abilities designed for early warfare.
 

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euripides

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you should consider packing your cities more tightly. This will make better use of your land. Esp with the pyramids you want specialists and therefore farms, so you can have alot bigger pop than you have landtiles. With The Hague placed away from the river (for the horse? ok) you can build another city between the Hague and Rotterdam (there are a LOT of unused riverside grassland tiles). Same to the NW of Amsterdam. There is floodplains and riverside. I think this would make an ok production site. Lastly the river delta E of Amsterdam, there is 2 Floodplains unused. Settle a city on the coast and help grow your cottages, until the capitol has a happycap of 20 and can take over all those tiles.
In short: Settle more cities, allow overlap since your cities obviously have a cap of 11-12 population right now, this will make better use of your land and allow for more rep-enhanced specialists. Build more workers for the jungle, you are working unimproved tiles. 1.5-2 per city is a good rule of thumb.

Now this game looks won to me. Especially as you will likely get all thegood land in the New World, wich brings you further ahead. Have fun winning!
 

kossin

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Just a general comment as I haven't opened the save...

Generally, you want to settle towards the AI rather than away to block land.

Willem is as good a warmonger as any other leader... creative means you can whip libraries easily to run scientists for research as well as easy border pops to secure land/resources while Financial lets you stay afloat by running a few cottages more easily.
 

hou jing

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The save file is version 302, and I can't open anything higher than 301. I have no idea what I just typed, but I guess it means I need to download something. Do I need to download a new mod?
 

bestsss

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>>12 in how much time?
1AD, you are financial (2 cottages per city top will keep you afloat, or just settle near the coast and it's fine) and creative (easy libs/easy GS) w/ so much gold in the capital, that nothing can stop so brutal expansion.
---
looked at the screenshot, what's the point of the Notre Dame, so many hammers wasted.
 

Sian

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have only looked at initial picture ...

I'd proberly move warrior SW and if he sees something intersting settle 1w of Corn
 

Fleme

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I'm just sad that I'm seeing 7 cottages in the entire empire. (Haven't opened save) What's with all those farms? I can't see that being useful in any kind of situation.

Financial, Financial, Financial...

So, what you should've done is:

1) Make use of that gold and rex the bejeebies our of everything. You can easily afford 10+ cities with that kind of a start.

2) Cottages. Everywhere. That's what Willem (and every other Financial leader) is all about.

3) Workers. It's 940 AD and there's still a huge jungle right next to your core. All in all, you should focus in having your terrain more or less improved by 1AD and by 500 AD at the latest.

4) City placement is bad. The start would've allowed your warrior to move 1SW and see the wheat and follow this by settling on the plains hill south of the gold. Not a huge deal and luck would've played a part in you doing this move I suppose and it's not a problem settling dutch cities on a lake because you can still get dikes for the rivers. Still, that doesn't remove the fact that for example The Hague is not in an optimal location. Fresh water is always a thing to consider and I would assume that you'd prefer having dikes over not having them.

Still, if you're winning and having a good time then all I have to say is good for you. That's what it's all about.
 

bestsss

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>>2) Cottages. Everywhere. That's what Willem (and every other Financial leader) is all about.
W/ 3 gold in the capital one doesn't even need extra cottages. Farms are good, they can be replaced by watermills later, and riverside windmills are just fine.
Farms can be whipped, cottages can't.
Settling fish/marble/copper city seal the game, by the way.
 
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