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First nail in September job numbers coffin just got hammered in!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by bhsup, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. Ahovking

    Ahovking Cyber Nations

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    When you are having problem creating jobs and also is dealing with a massive debt you don't want a lawyer but someone with experience with business.
     
  2. schlaufuchs

    schlaufuchs La Femme Moderne

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    Why? How does a president directly affect the economy through his personal decisions (beyond picking advisors)
     
  3. Ahovking

    Ahovking Cyber Nations

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    0.o I'm speechless

    For an example: If the president makes a policy lowering tax on small business, small business have more money so they can either expand or employ more workers if the president make a policy rising tax on small business they will have less money and will be unable to hire more workers nor expand thier business. The president can also stop or support bills that effect small business.
     
  4. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    What does business experience have to do with the decision to raise and lower taxes? Businessmen usually don't have to set the tax rate, since businesses don't tax people. And obviously businessmen are in favor of low taxes. Doesn't mean that this is the best for the country overall.
     
  5. schlaufuchs

    schlaufuchs La Femme Moderne

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    Also the president doesn't set the tax rates.
     
  6. Ahovking

    Ahovking Cyber Nations

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    It just stunning

    No but he can make a policy to effect it ......
     
  7. Ahovking

    Ahovking Cyber Nations

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    Having business experience you would know what a business wants and needs to grow, so when in office they can pass laws, bill, and policy's that favor business.
     
  8. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    Pro-business legislation is invariably anti-market regulation. Why do you hate freedom?
     
  9. Ahovking

    Ahovking Cyber Nations

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    Why do you think that ?
     
  10. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    I don't think that, it is a fact. Business doesn't like competition.
     
  11. Ahovking

    Ahovking Cyber Nations

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    And that why so meany don't understand me because I think they do, but it doesn't really matter by making business compete against each other they lower the price making things cheaper to buy.
     
  12. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    What you are taught in politics depend on the prof, the school, the country, and possibly the time of the day and the phase of the moon. There are as many theories as there are countries, and there's pretty solid evidence that none of them is perfect, and most of them can be made to work...to an extent.

    Many country interfere with the free market a lot more than the US (up to and including regulating banks to prevent them from being in subprime style jeopardy to begin with, and single-payer healthcare, where the government take control of that whole sector; publicly owned electricity companies, and so forth), and are also better off than the US by most appreciable metrics.

    Besides which, he studied law, not politics, and law classes definitely don't teach you that government control of economics is bad - that's completely besides the point of studying law. They just teach you how the government work, what it does, what it isn't allowed to do, and all that.

    Which is a pretty handy sort of knowledge when trying to actually run the government.
     
  13. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Businesses want zero taxes, of course, do you think that is a good idea? What single economic actors want is fairly obvious (they all have hundreds of lobbyists sitting in our capitals to let us know after all), how to balance their interests so the overall outcome is positive for as many of them as possible is the difficult part. Romney is competent in management and microeconomics. The problems the government has to solve are macroeconomic in nature.
     
  14. Ahovking

    Ahovking Cyber Nations

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    I agree business want zero taxes but it would never happen, but lowering them during a economic hard time would benefit the economy and increase job demands.

    I don't see Obama understanding this. I think the best way the US to get out of its current economic problems is another Ronald Reagan.( and just to be SUPER clear I'm not comparing Ronald Reagan to mitt Romney)
     
  15. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    Actually, it would do so only very indirectly.

    Business don't hire more people because they're making more money; they hire more people *to* make more money. That is to say, to increase production (or to start production of a new product). Which require consumers with money to spend much more than it require businesses with moneys to throw around.

    Now, it would marginally help in perhaps slightly lowering the number of people getting fired (and even that is questionable) and limiting the numbers of bankruptcies, but then that would just be big government propping up failing business via temporary tax reprieve (instead of government loans). Which I thought was a Very Bad Thing.

    And of course, all that presumes the jobs being created are not simply created in, say, China.
     
  16. WindFish

    WindFish Class Warrior

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    Firstly you're assuming this recession was caused by supply side issues, it wasn't. It was caused by demand side issues

    Psst, it turns out its a bad idea to lower the wages of the bottom 40% (inflation adjusted) in a consumer driven economy
     
  17. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Not necessarily. Business and economics really are 2 very different subjects. Not even all that closely related in many respects.
     
  18. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Why?




    Reagan's economic policies sucked. If it wasn't for the huge deficits he ran there wouldn't have been a job created at all during his presidency. 0 net new business investment over 8 years. Obama has already beat Reagan's record in 4 years.
     
  19. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama
    Well I'm glad you think Obama is very acceptable. :)
     
  20. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    Just so we're completely crystal on your reasoning. Key is being able to deal with massive amounts of revenue?

    Another critique is "a background in economics, or in management of large business which also deals with large amount of revenue.".

    A business has very different goals, purposes and plays a very different role in the economy than government has. If you manage business as if it's government and vice versa, you'll be in a lot of trouble. For instance, a business does not impact the amount of spending power or confidence consumers have. They're affected by it, as is made clear the last couple of years where businesses have the financial room to invest but won't. Partisan talking heads would have you believe they're afraid of the Big Bad Obama with all his nasty anti-small business rules, but the reality is that Obama has been extra special nice to those businesses. The reason investors don't invest is they don't see an increase of demand, due to low confidence, at the consumer side of the economy.

    Someone with a business oriented view governing the country will not remedy that situation. They'll likely increase the opportunity to invest but not deal with creating the incentive.

    edit: As you would it seems:
    Ok, explain to me why job demands haven't gone up with the same rate as business' room to create them?

    Are you too going to fall back on: they be scared of Obama's potential policy making?
    And I'm trying to get to grips with your point.

    A point which is weakened by calling the race as between "a business man" and a "community organizer", which I feel sells both men short. It may be helpful if one is in the process of trying to erect a poor argument to have the distinction as poorly defined as "a business man" and a "community organizer" in order to prop that weak argument. In that case I can see why you'd pose the situation in that light.

    What is much more important is the experience both have with governing, since that is directly related to the job they're applying for, of which both have extensive records.
     

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