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First pangea game in years..unsure what to do next!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by trev1972, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. trev1972

    trev1972 Warlord

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    Hey all

    I got back into civ iv a few weeks back, after quite a long time away (5 years).

    I initially started on archipelago maps to give me breathing space. And after a few of those i decided to try a large pangea, prince (marathon as always)

    Have had an exceptional start!!

    My wandering quechua popped a scout early on, and about 25-30 tiles away i found frederick.

    So, i whipped/chopped 3 more quechua out, sent them out and took his capital, one city down and great i thought. Land had a farm and mine, and i got a worker from it too.

    Then...when moving my scout down i found....the chinese literally 12 tiles away!!

    So (perhaps foolishly?) i used my captured city and captured worker to chop/whip 4 more quechua's and took the chinese capital too, i just chopped stonehenge in my own capitol (i have buddhism and want to get gpp moving).

    Now im at a crux about what to do next, i have essentially 2 distant cities..and the upkeep is already showing.

    I could find the other civs cites, and use all 3 cities to whip/chop quechas and try to take out a third civ, but im concerned this will leave me with a massive empty map and unmanageable maintenance?

    Would you now focus on slowly expanding up to join the capital to the outposts?

    Or would you go on another quechua rampage and take another capital if possible?

    Cheers.
     
  2. mara5a

    mara5a Chieftain

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    my humble (monarch) view on this goes as follows: you already have 3 capitol-like city sites which gives you EXTREME advantage in production but sets you back, as mentioned above, upkeep. I would probably stay as i am, and maybe settle surroundings of you capitol for commerce. Again with production like that I´d personaly attempt HA rush or axe+catapult (your economy should be ok by then). Four distant cities like that could put you really backwards on research.
    BUT calculate it. I´d personaly attempt to quechua rush 4th capitol if my research slider would NOT go under 30 % after conquest.
    Again im more of builder than the warmonger.
     
  3. trev1972

    trev1972 Warlord

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    hey mara

    Yes its a huge advantage, not just the extra cities, but the extra workers as well, and improvements etc, all for the cost of 4 lost Quechua (2nd capitol was on a hill and cost me 3 units) ... part of me is concerned about the land between capitol and outposts being settled while i start more fights..

    Plus isabella is here somewhere, she always 1) Founds the 2nd religion and 2) Declares war on me for being a heathen.

    I tend to be a builder as well, and this early rush is totally unlike me :)



    Just curious by the way, i moved to pangea and added an extra civ to the standard number as i figured pangea would be harder with all the ai tech trading- but i have a feeling i may run away with this game already.

    How big is the jump to monarch?

    Cheers
     
  4. CivMcNut

    CivMcNut Having Fun At It

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    I'm more of a warmonger myself, but I would still think you need to hold back and not go for distant stuff until you have currency and code of laws. The rule I've heard on here a lot is if you can't run your science slider up to 60% without going in the hole finacially, you have too many expenses, like city maintainence.

    If you are playing on prince, you might be able to get away with teching slow for a while. Like the 1st reply I play on Monarch too, and if you fall behind there, it is hard to catch back up.

    Another thing is you want to give your captured cities time to become productive, when you first capture them they usually spend the first several turns not being able to do much. Once you get workers over there and imiprove the tiles, then they start becoming pretty useful.
     
  5. VSarius

    VSarius Warlord

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    I wouldn't go for a 3rd civ kill, but as long as you have Writing, start filling in the territory until you are only breaking even/losing money at 0% or run out of land. Cottage the land heavily and just spam settlers and workers, once you are to Currency and Code of Laws the game is essentially won with such a severe land advantage. Izzy as a next-door neighbor just simplifies things. Easy access to a religion, she likes to spread it, and she hits Pleased very easily with Shared Religion.
     
  6. trev1972

    trev1972 Warlord

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    hehe vsarius- i founded buddhism (i thought religion on pangea would pay off well, i love the spying aspect) and izzy has hinduism..a war is inevitable.

    It seems i could be sitting on her borders with 10,000 tanks...yet if im the wrong religion izzy will declare :) or so it seems anyway
     
  7. CivMcNut

    CivMcNut Having Fun At It

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    Isabell is usually a bad general.
     
  8. trev1972

    trev1972 Warlord

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    she spreads her religion so fast though..she must be spamming missionaries?

    having said that, the neighbours i hate most so far are Montezuma (he is annoyed on initial contact every time) and Alexander!!!

    anyway thanks for the feedback, no more rushing for me, just slowly expanding until i am losing cash at 60% science.
     
  9. Lennier

    Lennier Emperor

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    I find Pangaeas generally easier than water type maps as you can't complete conquest in the latter until Astronomy, whereas a Pangaea can be rolled well before then. The AIs don't make good tech trades between themselves. You may have noticed that you couldn't quechua-rush an archipelago map.
    Founding an early religion (Buddhism, Hinduism, or Judaism) is generally considered a bad move--research worker techs first.

    Old rule; not considered good advice any more.

    Current best advice. With writing, you can build libraries and run scientists to generate research (with the occasional GS to bulb something.) Land=power.
     
  10. trev1972

    trev1972 Warlord

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    I get the 'worker techs first' advise definitely, however i felt it wasnt as big a hindrance as i had picked incans...so it was a single tech, my worker wasnt sitting around dong nothing for long... i put down two farms - and by the time they were finished id got mining/bronze working and was chopping..then onto the wheel and connecting resources up..

    I assume this works fine on prince but not when higher level? I love the ability to see inside enemy cities, and the income too...
     
  11. VSarius

    VSarius Warlord

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    Founding a religion is generally not advised due to the reason you encountered here, an AI will always found a religion, generally the type who do will spread it (Monty is an example of an AI who will not spread his religion). This means it's likely more civs will follow their religion than yours, this means you run into diplo issues. Unless you do spread it, which means sinking hammers into Missionaries which is one of the WORST ways of using hammers early on.

    Worker wise, if you are say Spain and have a coastal start it's fine to go for an early religion. You want to work boat open usually anyway. There is also the chance of losing the race and having wasted turns on a worthless tech. Expansion wise, you want to gobble as much as possible on any difficulty except Deity where it becomes a bit more complex. You will always out-tech a civ with less land eventually, crashing to 0% is even desired in a sense since that means you have expanded as much as possible. Whether you go for this via War or REXing depends on the map.
     
  12. mara5a

    mara5a Chieftain

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    yea, forgot about the workers :lol: i guess its just wordplay though, my idea was that instead of having one capitol city site (which is in 90% superior to surrounding areas) you have three of these. As i read through the rest of the comments I'm geting more certain about that "settle the rest of area with settler and cottage spam" aproach.
    I would not worry much about Izzy, her religion rushes put her usually backwards on other techs (either worker or BW) so she can be easy to conquer later, just watch your ratio of forces. (She isn't really a good general either as someone mentioned above). (I'm personally worried only about shaka rushes on noble :lol::lol: )
    A big. I mean I was pretty much able to win almost every game i played on noble but i got my a** kicked alot on monarch. AI builds far more military AND uses it against you often, is sometimes able (mansa munsa or joaoII especially) simply outtech you and so on.
    But if you can win say one in two games on noble I would personally recommend you to begin playing monarch. You will be losing in the beggining but your game will improve drastically as the time goes.

    BTW I bet that many of the best players here would criticize your founding religion strategy (but I've been there too :D )
     
  13. trev1972

    trev1972 Warlord

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    hehe i know everyone says dont found a religion, but i had food to work , so it limited the 'workers sitting around doing nothing' issue greatly.

    edit, im also a fan of organised religion - if i found a religion myself- by the time i switch it is well spread.

    If i wait for someone to spread it to me (on big maps) it can take a lot longer.

    Im guessing others prefer 'liberating' holy cities' though :)
     
  14. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Replace "60%" with "0%" and you have a valid rule...though one would ideally at least have pottery/writing/BW before doing that.

    Founding one of the first 3 religious blows fiercely; you *almost* always have better things to be teching that do more for you sooner. Now, using another civ's religion, or founding religion off of Code of Laws or bulbing Philosophy is another matter. Even if you're going to use the one you found, those are better anyway because they come at a time when cities might actually have the :hammers: to spare and when the AI religion choices/foundings are more clear, meaning you don't lose much/any time on spreading since before that you'd have been building workers, settlers, military, or high priority buildings (granaries, libraries, some monuments) anyway.
     
  15. mara5a

    mara5a Chieftain

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