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First Production

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by [BR] Master, Apr 4, 2016.

  1. [BR] Master

    [BR] Master Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
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    Location:
    Brazil
    Hi guys!

    When you start a game, what is your first choice of production?

    A settler?
    A worker?
    A scout?
    A warrior?
    Or a monument? :mischief:
     
  2. SoonerJBD

    SoonerJBD Warlord

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    I can't imagine a scenario in which you wouldn't want to build at least one scout. Goodie huts, finding expo sites, meeting City States. You need a Scout.
     
  3. fyar

    fyar Prince

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    Archipelago or small islands. I skip the scout on those map types.

    But the most important thing you said is "imagine a scenario" because it always depends on the circumstances: your civ, the map type, your dirt, maybe even the game speed. So the OP needs to provide those details. In most circumstances, I agree with Sooner that the scout is the default first build. If pangaea, probably a second scout too. If Ethiopia, probably a stele next. If you have lots of desert/flood plains around, you probably want a shrine ASAP.

    There's no single build order that works best for all situations.
     
  4. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Kind of hard to build a settler from turn 0. Maybe if you discover a "free population" ruin on your first turn.... :)

    Agree with fyar -- scout first (often double scout) unless I know I'm on a water map or, if playing Ethiopia, a stele.
     
  5. Callonia

    Callonia Deity

    Joined:
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    Scout or double scout unless I start on a small island then.. a worker?
     
  6. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    Since I almost exclusively play Pangea (and mostly Tradition) I go Scout / Scout / Scout in 90% of my games.
     
  7. inthesomeday

    inthesomeday Immortan

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    I might go scout monument shrine settler, or scout scout monument settler, or scout monument granary settler, depending on the land
     
  8. KingKong76

    KingKong76 Warlord

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    A settler? I cant see any scenario where you can even afford to build a settler...
    A worker? I guess on archipelago maybe... never did it tho...
    A scout? 99% of the time on any map but island based map.
    A warrior? I think I did a few times with Aztecks... since their Warrior is almost as mobile than a scout if its forest heavy with no rivers.
    A Monument? On Island maps it usauly my 1st build.
     
  9. KingKong76

    KingKong76 Warlord

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    Use to do that on Pangea aswel... but I found out that its slower on culture and faith and in the end you dont really discover more ruins on average in the long term than if you go scout scout Monument shrine.

    Try it.
     
  10. Knowtalent

    Knowtalent Emperor GOTM Staff

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    Unless youre on small or tiny islands scout monument. Shrine or granary depending on if i there is a reason to rush pantheon. DF or EM is the only motivator for shrine.

    Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
     
  11. MightySpice

    MightySpice Chieftain

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  12. donkeyfish

    donkeyfish Warlord

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    Its more about worker steal/caravan pillage/settler block/barb quest than ruins I think. Doing some neighbourhood duty while still meeting all AI and CS fast.

    I agree on ruins though, you usually get the ones next to you, and seldom more, with 1 or 3 scouts (on Deity at least).
     
  13. noto2

    noto2 Emperor

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    Really? 3 scouts? Is that really necessary? If going Tradition I'm going to want a worker after my 2nd scout and if gong Liberty I'm going to build a monument at that point.
     
  14. inthesomeday

    inthesomeday Immortan

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    A scout is a worker, except a much cheaper one that has other abilities, if you're near any CS and/or you have any neighbors.
     
  15. Dushku

    Dushku Prince

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    I've been playing Honor domination on Immortal Pangaea. I'm liking Scout, Monument, Worker, Settler, Settler, Caravan, Library, Caravan, National College. First expand builds Scout, Monument, Library. Second expand builds Monument, Library.
     
  16. claudiupb

    claudiupb King

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    ^^ Your scout in the expand comes too late. For Pangaea you need at least 2 early scouts to meet everyone fast. The gold from CS is important (also meeting them faster means you can perform some early quests like connecting a resource), meeting AI's makes your techs cheaper and you might even get an extra ruin. Also the advantage of knowing the map is not to be neglected especially for a domination game.
     
  17. noto2

    noto2 Emperor

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    Yeah but why do you need 3? Also, you can only declare on one CS to steal workers. After that you can't do it anymore if you want to have any gold and CS allies ever again.
     
  18. x2Madda

    x2Madda Prince

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    Triple scout is so powerful that i can only recommend you try it. Goodyhuts offer free techs, culture, science, faith, gold. Yes there are the duds like barb locations or more of the map but the things you get for free are so worth it ad better than anything else you can build in the early turns.

    Scouts may also get freely upgraded to archers, so you can intimidate city states for gold.

    Also it is better to steal workers from other civs than city states. City states can never win the game so its pointless to steal from them unless you get desperate. That said you can steal and not make peace, they will make another worker eventually and you can steal that too.
     
  19. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    That is by far the most standard build there is and I've tried it about a hundred times if I had to guess :lol:

    This man gets it!

    For everyone else questing the triple Scout build, here's a small compendium of what Scouts should do for you:

    - Meeting all the AIs as soon as possible
    - Locating all the AIs as soon as possible
    - Stealing a Worker from the AI
    - Farming Workers from the AI
    - Pillaging Caravans
    - Blocking Workers or Settlers
    - Blocking choke points on the map to hinder advancement
    - Getting all the CS money/faith as soon as possible
    - Getting all first CS quests as soon as possible
    - Steal a Worker from CS
    - Farm Workers from CS
    - Discover NW for CS
    - Discover Borders for CS
    - Find empty Barb Camps for CS
    - Find unprotected Workers from CS
    - Revealing the geographic details of the map
    - Revealing the best city spots
    - Revealing Luxury/Strategics density in order to pick Trad/Lib
    - Finding Barbs to make Worker/Settler escorts more safe
    - Escorting/Protecting Workers/Settlers
    - Going back to your lands after the Archer upgrade
    - Getting to the other end of the map before it is closed off by AI borders (happens quite often to me on crowded Pangeas)
    - Abusing the vision promotion to stop Barbarian Camps from spawning
    - Stacking defensive promotions on a City State so you can farm EXP with Archers (CS will always attack the weaker Scout, even if he is fortified)
    - Revealing the best way to reach AI capitals for a domination victory
    - Huts

    Notice how goodie huts are not nearly the most important thing about Scouts. Scouting is the most important thing in the early game and can make or break your game. Getting that City State money or the money from embassies early is huge, getting it late is pretty insignificant.

    If I know I am going Liberty it is usually because my scouting was so good. How would you know it is a good Liberty map if you have only scouted a little bit of the map? Granted, when I know I am going Liberty and I didn't get a Culture Ruin I will go Scout / Scout / Monument / Scout or Shrine / Shrine or Scout.

    How often do you get one upgrade ruin? You don't want to keep scouting with your newly upgraded Archer, you want to bring it back. That's why I love 3 Scouts. Often times when I declare on an AI I will just keep my Scout around his lands "doing nothing" (spacebar) until I see a Caravan, Settler or Worker. It almost always pays off. But a Scout like that has to sit still. So I need the two others for Scouting.

    That's not a problem though since you can easily steal multiple Workers from one City State. I've gotten up to four, though to be fair that is a once in every 1000 hours thing. Here's the trick:

    If you see a CS Worker improving a ressource wait with your steal. Especially if it's a Lux/Strategic. Steal exactly on the turn the Worker finishes the tile and make sure you pillage. When you pillage, that gives the CS additional flavor to build another Worker asap (at least I think so, correct me if I'm wrong). Also, you know where that Worker is going first. In order to farm Workers you need a spot two tiles from said pillaged tile that is not visible to the CS (surrounded by Jungle, Forest, Hills). If all those conditions are fulfilled you can easily just park a Scout there after you stole the Worker and check every turn until the next one comes out. After you get the second Worker you either peace out or you rinse and repeat.

    Furthermore I just wanted to add that I usually get 5 or more Huts and I've gotten up to 8, 9 or 10 quite a few times so it seems the # of Scouts does make a big difference. I always play standard/standard Pangea with 8 Civs 16 CS.
     
  20. SoonerJBD

    SoonerJBD Warlord

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    How many scouts you build is going to depend on the map a bit. On a large Pangea, three is totally worth it. Sometimes on continents as well. Meeting city states, stealing workers, goodie huts, etc.
     

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