First round-planning the worker actions

[kaskavel]

Very lucky start with 3 food bonuses and many river tiles and I do not want to mess up (I never restart if I get a bad initial position). Emperor (with extra restrictions), huge, everything else random, no desired winning condition, no ancient tech trading, no extra tech for philosophy. I need advice.
Long story made short I think about 3-mine-road-8-irrigate-road-6-irrigate-road-1-mine-road-ignore the game forest for now and head straight to the BGs on the NW. the crucial questions are
1. I irrigate both wheats, right?
2. When do I chop the game forest?
3. Is the tempo saved by beginning with 3 instead of 9 (I end the whole south-east buisness north of the river this way and can reach the NW BGs one round earlier) worth delaying the irrigation of the wheats? Or those NW tiles are not a priority and I can survive with my 5 south tiles and prefer something like 9-6-1-1-3 or 9-6-1-2-7 followed by chopping the other two forests (or at least the rivered one)? After all, those BG tiles are for a city above pop 5 and are not rivered...
Edit: NW is also a quite probable destination for my first settler, second one behind NE.

 

[Spoonwood]

I irrigate both wheats, right?

What's the water percentage on the map? It might not be best to irrigate any of the wheats on an 80% water map.

Irrigating both wheats ends up good if you have two cities using both of them.

When do I chop the game forest?

Well, if we're going for 20k in Kyoto, the answer might be never. Then we would probably irrigate one wheat, mine another, and use the forested game more for shield production. If this is Chieftain and we're going for histographic, the answer comes as soon as we can get those shields towards a granary in some nearby city.

No desired victory condition doesn't really end up with a way to answer these questions other than saying "If we were to play for spaceship, then we would do best probably to develop the tiles in such and such a way."

Is the tempo saved by beginning with 3 instead of 9 (I end the whole south-east buisness north of the river this way and can reach the NW BGs one round earlier) worth delaying the irrigation of the wheats?

I don't know why you would want to delay the irrigation of the wheats. But, they might use mined when a golden age can come soon.

 

[BlackBetsy]

It might not be best to irrigate any of the wheats on an 80% water map.

I don't immediately understand the relationship. Because there will be more (zero shield) coastal/sea tiles so you need all the production you will get?

Since we are Japan here, I don't assume science or cultural victory (although obviously you can win either way with the Japanese its just not as easy). If it's a Con/Dom victory, I'm irrigating the wheats to get population up as soon as possible.

 

[kaskavel]

This is one of my senario games. The restriction is that Japan can only enter foreign borders with elite troops and armies and I now remembered that the map is huge (but everything else random), I will update the initial post on that. So, domination and diplomatic is quite difficult, spaceship and histograph seem the most likely VC.
I am still trying to finish my Mongol game, so I have not moved yet.

 

[kaskavel]

I don't know why you would want to delay the irrigation of the wheats. But, they might use mined when a golden age can come soon.

I wonder if my workers should finish the southern squares at 7 of Kyoto (and start chopping) or 6 of Kyoto (and head for the BGs on the north one round earlier). I I take the second option, I have to move my worker at 3 of Kyoto first round.

 

[Spoonwood]

I don't immediately understand the relationship. Because there will be more (zero shield) coastal/sea tiles so you need all the production you will get?

Because you probably need settlers quickly. Or will soon make military.

If it's a Con/Dom victory, I'm irrigating the wheats to get population up as soon as possible.

I took a look at @templar_x 's standard Emperor conquest the other night. He founds 5 cities and then goes to war. His capital is at size 7 at the end, and has mined cows. It makes 10 shields per turn. What's the use in having a size 12 city in a quick conquest or domination game? Getting a few cities up, and then getting to 10 shields per turn, making barracks, and then moving military around is pretty much the entire strategy of the game.

This is another reason why conquest/domination end up as rather simple, and why it makes sense that it usually would score lower than histographic. It's also easily less complex than a optimal/near optimal spaceship game... but the score system unfortunately doesn't reflect this.

 

[Spoonwood]

Since we are Japan here, I don't assume science or cultural victory (although obviously you can win either way with the Japanese its just not as easy).

100k makes a lot of sense for Japan, since they are religious. Militaristic also fits, since a fair amount of war for 100k comes as advised.

 

[kaskavel]

I don't immediately understand the relationship. Because there will be more (zero shield) coastal/sea tiles so you need all the production you will get?

I think he means that in a 80% water, there is less land per tribe and as a result smaller need for rapid settlers.

 

[Spoonwood]

I think he means that in a 80% water, there is less land per tribe and as a result smaller need for rapid settlers.

No. I don't think I was thinking that.

On an 80% water (and 20% land) map, you can use settlers more rapidly than if you played on a 60% water map. Because you'll run out space you can settle without war sooner.

However, you don't need as many settlers on an 80% water map.

If you're only going to have one ring of cities around your capital, one city growing quickly producing settlers is enough, and a second city doing such isn't likely to help with settler production, or maybe only produce one settler.

On a map with lots of open land, you can use multiple settler pumps. On a map with a little amount of land, you can't use multiple settler pumps. Even a granary before settlers in a capital for an 80% water map might be the wrong call. Though, I would think that on Chieftain, we'd still want multiple settler pumps. Though you did say Emperor here.