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first social policy? Tradition?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Multiplayer' started by BrutalusMaximus, Jul 20, 2011.

  1. BrutalusMaximus

    BrutalusMaximus Warlord

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    Tradition or no? Just for the opener. 3 more culture per turn right away and faster borders on the capital and all around. The rest of the tree seems to be crap abut that first pic seems so nice. Or just spam honor and liberty and skip that first sweet taste of tradition?
     
  2. Sir Penguinboy

    Sir Penguinboy Chieftain

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    I usually go with honor or liberty. Since I like to expand a lot and get really paraniod with having a smaller civ, rarely if ever do i do tradition. I think you should focus on whether you like to expand a lot or not, and then rule out either liberty or tradition. Honor is pretty good for the millitary stuff, but if thats not your stategy then don't get it. Pick whichever one suits your strategy and situation.
     
  3. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Honor for fast rush(warriors-spearmen-swordmen-horsemen) with 1 or 2 cities(quality over quantity). Liberty for build set-up for a bigger and/or more advanced war but with lesser bonuses(quantity over quality). Tradition is only good if you play small continents, islands or archipelago, or are in a very safe spot with a nice choke point.

    Problem with Tradition is in mp you can't gather happiness so easily. City states can be off or you can't have the money to ally some of them. Pre-patch it was a powerful tree with Landed Elite as a 3rd policy and luxuries giving more happiness.
     
  4. Captsac

    Captsac Chieftain

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    His question was do you pick up Tradition for the +3 Culture and THEN go Lib/Honor or just go straight to Lib/Honor.
     
  5. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Oops my bad.

    Since i bash Tradition in my post, you can understand that i highly prefer going for Honor or Liberty right away. The +3 culture is a waste of a policy if i don't stick with Tradition.
     
  6. Rinnero

    Rinnero Chieftain

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    Tradition opener is probably the best policy overall.

    Early in game +3culture is nice, but whats more important it reduces culture cost of acquiring tiles by 2-4 times. (approximately 240->60 for example, compare this with krepost or ankgor wat that is only 25% discount)

    Adopt it and forget about tile buying. I play a lot in MP and always take this one first: both for rush or for expansion.
     
  7. Captsac

    Captsac Chieftain

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    No worries. Wanted to clarify because I was curious about this too. I've been picking up the +3 culture these last 2 weeks. I get my settler/worker from Lib later but over take my opponent after that. Rinnero makes an excellent point. The added culture expands your borders faster. Hopefully someone smarter than me will do the math :goodjob:.
     
  8. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Liberty can be finished sooner if you go straight away in that tree, than if you go Tradition first. That's the whole point. A free GP is very strong. Finishing the Liberty tree to get a Golden Age is nice. Also, a free worker while you build something else is very strong. Sooner the better.

    I rarely buy tiles.

    For Honor it's different. You need units to gain culture, so Honor can wait a bit.
     
  9. Silverfuturist

    Silverfuturist King

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    "For Honor it's different. You need units to gain culture, so Honor can wait a bit."

    I only go strictly liberty right away if I don't have a neighbor going down the honor path, or I don't have an early rush neighbor like Rome/Iriquois. While that free GP is very strong, I need a GG to stop a rush, especially if I am not in rugged terrain. A few days ago I attribute my GG as the only reason why I stopped France's Iron Rush, as I had no iron at my capital. Considering I am new to multiplayer, perhaps there are liberty defense strategies I am not aware of.

    Plus the barbs give culture from Honor, that turns out being lucrative, especially if you position a spear next to a barb camp near the border of a CS and farm barbs, you get a free ally and culture.

    That first city built has a strength of about 7, and China's GG plus spears/warriors can take it before Iron is discovered. That is what I did as China yesterday, my neighbor went liberty and I 3warrior/1spear/1scout rushed the new city while my other scout distracted his capital by threatening a worker steal. That early there are not many archers around, and he only has enough to buy 1. The attacking scout ended up taking the city!

    The downside to these rushes is there is a chance you will get cursed at... "noob, f@g" seems to be the vocabulary of a segment of on-line Civ players... apparently "good" players don't do early rushes, after all you are supposed to let your neighbors build up and then rifle rush you in the future... most players I met are cool, that outweighs the trolls.
     
  10. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    A failed early rush often means big big recovery problems later. Turtling first and waiting for a better set-up is less risky. Most people do this approach on non-duel games. Even with a successful early rush it's not clear that you will outperform other players later because you may retreive yourself with distant cities, unhappiness, etc.
     
  11. Silverfuturist

    Silverfuturist King

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    I think turtling requires the right terrain... I keep seeing turtling work in my games where a player is in a corner, or they have features like mountains/sea/rugged terrain to defend bottlenecks. Rushing a setup like that early looks like a waste of hammers, and later it takes a dedicated effort to storm.

    The players who go the liberty route out in the open have so far been easy to puppet early in my games, their new city defends at a 7 (or even 6?) and the GG plus +10% policy and my ability to hit them from any side is overwhelming. The puppeting doesn't go on forever, just enough to carve out a portion of the map and secure unique luxuries and enough iron, the extra land greatly increases the chances for uranium later. The NC requires 1 library and the policies come faster, like my SP Deity approach. It seems that for a game lasting long, tall empires become a crap shoot of who gets uranium and who doesn't, I had several games where the winning tall empires lost because they couldn't nuke.
     
  12. Antarion

    Antarion Prince

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    i prefer rather the right civ then the right terrain. imho the best in using tradition are egypt and india.
     

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